thoughts

[pikingslabber]

Following on from the treble v singles thread i thought i would ask some opinions. I have always struggled with the low profile that even a size 4 treble hook has(see pic) when hooked into a bait.This prompted me at the time to speak to Davy mc who i heard had been using double hooks for many years with no issues what so ever.I have since been using them and had some cracking fish with them,however i still jump back and forward from trebles to doubles for what reason i cannot fathom in my own head.recently my hook up rate on trebles based on amount of fish lost has been terrible.Trebles two in tandem have been the standard and most traditional pike method for deadbaiting for centuries,however ive had far better hook up rate using the doubles,so why on earth am i still pissin about with trebles.


look at the first picture and imagine the bottom hooks are placed in the dead bait and the profile on the treble i think is poor,both are size 4"s,this has to have some bearing in the hook up rate,another thing worth mentioning is the singles seem to hook better in the scissors.....thoughts and opinions much appreciated

[pikingslabber]

this for me appears much better,ive been mucking about with the tail hooks,basically the tail hooks are two singles separated slightly giving the option of better hooking on the tail of soft baits as hook is larger than that of the drennan doubles,also give the option of two different spacings for size of bait,again opinions appreciated

[Gavin P]

Looks good to me, the increased hook up rate could be because when you strike you are exerting the same amount of pressure/force onto one point instead of two when hooking the fish so this could lead to a better hookhold resulting in more fish banked

Personally I haven't seen the doubles in action so cant really make my mind up but I prefer trebles as it is what I have the most confidence in but I am sure there are plenty of merits to using the doubles, Davy Mc knows his stuff

[DavyMc]

Jim I use that size of hook but the bigger hook goes in the bait adipose fin area on a troot the smaller hook is left proud and this gets some foam on. Now most fish are hooked in the scissors as you say but with the bigger hook which was the bait holder fathom that one out. This rig works very well using only the one hook incorporate another hook and it seems at times to stop the first on finding it's way into the scissors as happens with trebles perhaps?
Lot of people a highly skeptical of this setup because their used to having 6 points on their traces not 2 but I can assure you that this does work You just gotta believe

[MarkBerrisford]

personally i always pinch 2 of the prongs on a treble together slightly so they stand a bit more proud of the bait and my hook up rate is very good,doubles look good but never got round to trying them

[Steve C]

personally i always pinch 2 of the prongs on a treble together slightly so they stand a bit more proud of the bait and my hook up rate is very good,doubles look good but never got round to trying them

............. or stick two prongs of a large treble into the bait so that you've just one prong exposed. It's just like using a double but better, as this hook can't fold flat against the bait

[DavyMc]

personally i always pinch 2 of the prongs on a treble together slightly so they stand a bit more proud of the bait and my hook up rate is very good,doubles look good but never got round to trying them

............. or stick two prongs of a large treble into the bait so that you've just one prong exposed. It's just like using a double but better, as this hook can't fold flat against the bait

need a strong rod to pull two hooks per treble out the bait would you not??

go back read my one again the hook in the bait hooks the fish most of the time

[MarkBerrisford]

personally i always pinch 2 of the prongs on a treble together slightly so they stand a bit more proud of the bait and my hook up rate is very good,doubles look good but never got round to trying them

............. or stick two prongs of a large treble into the bait so that you've just one prong exposed. It's just like using a double but better, as this hook can't fold flat against the bait

need a strong rod to pull two hooks per treble out the bait would you not??

go back read my one again the hook in the bait hooks the fish most of the time

Mick Brown from what i've seen on the tv hooks his baits with two prongs on the hook on the tail, with most sea baits especially you'd have no trouble pulling 2 prongs out of the bait i'd have thought,coarse baits and trout may cause a problem but in reality probably not

[Steve C]

personally i always pinch 2 of the prongs on a treble together slightly so they stand a bit more proud of the bait and my hook up rate is very good,doubles look good but never got round to trying them

............. or stick two prongs of a large treble into the bait so that you've just one prong exposed. It's just like using a double but better, as this hook can't fold flat against the bait

need a strong rod to pull two hooks per treble out the bait would you not??

go back read my one again the hook in the bait hooks the fish most of the time

Probably not ideal on tough skinned baits like Trout, Eel, Lamprey, Zander or Pike , or on baits fished at extreme range, or on rods using mono, but otherwise I wouldn't have thought it an issue

[Steve C]

personally i always pinch 2 of the prongs on a treble together slightly so they stand a bit more proud of the bait and my hook up rate is very good,doubles look good but never got round to trying them

............. or stick two prongs of a large treble into the bait so that you've just one prong exposed. It's just like using a double but better, as this hook can't fold flat against the bait

need a strong rod to pull two hooks per treble out the bait would you not??

go back read my one again the hook in the bait hooks the fish most of the time

Mick Brown from what i've seen on the tv hooks his baits with two prongs on the hook on the tail, with most sea baits especially you'd have no trouble pulling 2 prongs out of the bait i'd have thought,coarse baits and trout may cause a problem but in reality probably not

[pikingslabber]

ive tried the two prong thing to get the one single sticking up,actually not that easy with some trebles and some types of bait.I have given the idea of squeezing two of the treble hooks closer to make the remaining one stand proud which is what i think mark is getting at,never yet tried it though,,,the thoughts on the rig above is that should one of those big hooks miss the other should catch hopefully.thanks for the input

[pikingslabber]

Jim I use that size of hook but the bigger hook goes in the bait adipose fin area on a troot the smaller hook is left proud and this gets some foam on. Now most fish are hooked in the scissors as you say but with the bigger hook which was the bait holder fathom that one out. This rig works very well using only the one hook incorporate another hook and it seems at times to stop the first on finding it's way into the scissors as happens with trebles perhaps?
Lot of people a highly skeptical of this setup because their used to having 6 points on their traces not 2 but I can assure you that this does work You just gotta believe

Davie are you saying you only fish the one drennan double even with large baits bud ?

[John G]

Just to throw another into the mix, Don't you think the doubles can fold flat against the bait? Trebles will always have a point up

[MarkBerrisford]

ive tried the two prong thing to get the one single sticking up,actually not that easy with some trebles and some types of bait.I have given the idea of squeezing two of the treble hooks closer to make the remaining one stand proud which is what i think mark is getting at,never yet tried it though,,,the thoughts on the rig above is that should one of those big hooks miss the other should catch hopefully.thanks for the input

i still use it as a conventional treble with only one hook in the bait, similar to the old ryder style trebles

[Andrew]

Hooking pike in the scissors worries me. what would you say as a percentage is hookup rate in scissors ?

I know most have said they are fine with it and havnt had problems (here and other forums) but can it be good long term hooking pike in a joint that allows them to open and close their traps I dont think so...

It's why I wont use circles. Doubles were looking good till I heard this scissors thing.

oh And what John G said, that popped into my head too.

[pikingslabber]

Does not appear to be an issue with the hook folding flat Andrew/john,did think about using a treble with two points cut of and using the remaining pieces bent to shape as a stabilizer for the hooks,but its not required based on the hook up ratio with the doubles,remember its under tension at the point entry.Might even be an advantage and one of the reasons it catches the scissors.I would be more worried about large hooks hooking in the roof of the mouth and piercing the brain,or large lure trebles than any damage a single hook will do in the in the scissors,but its all about opinions.I am sure davie should be able to advise as to any damage this may do over the years he has used (step forward davie face)

[DavyMc]

Doesn't matter if the hook lies flat probably does anyway given the grip of the fish and this maybe an advantage. As I said most times the actual point that goes into the bait is the one hooking the pike not the one standing proud. Yes Jim only one hook on most baits after about 5 inch then use 2 but still using the larger hook to basically take the weight of the cast never the wee hook, don't like big baits on the lochs half mackerel is more than enough.

As for damage to the fishes mouths would like to see some hard evidence of that and not speculation. Have tagged many fish, recaught them and never seen any noticeable damage. Where do you catch with trebles on deads as most fish I have on loors are the scissors seems the number one place to hook up

For soft sea baits sardines use the big single and put this in and around the backbone holds them fine. Oh you'll need barbed doubles not barbless.

[pikingslabber]

the double in the pic is barbless davie but the ones i use are barbed bud,,some good input ,and interesting about using the one hook,would have no issues wae that if it works.The drennans are practically unbendable with a fish on,one of the strongest hooks ive used...and i must say been using the big hook for hooking the bait bud from when i first discussed these hooks with you, and your bang on about it being the hook in the bait that hooks the pike,,

[Andrew]

Doesn't matter if the hook lies flat probably does anyway given the grip of the fish and this maybe an advantage. As I said most times the actual point that goes into the bait is the one hooking the pike not the one standing proud. Yes Jim only one hook on most baits after about 5 inch then use 2 but still using the larger hook to basically take the weight of the cast never the wee hook, don't like big baits on the lochs half mackerel is more than enough.

As for damage to the fishes mouths would like to see some hard evidence of that and not speculation. Have tagged many fish, recaught them and never seen any noticeable damage. Where do you catch with trebles on deads as most fish I have on loors are the scissors seems the number one place to hook up

For soft sea baits sardines use the big single and put this in and around the backbone holds them fine. Oh you'll need barbed doubles not barbless.

I would like to see it too mate, Ive wanted to see it since circles started doing the rounds on forums.

[BillCollins]

I've always had this conflict thing with trebles for deadbaits. I've gone through an entire season (more than once) of using standard singles and had no issues.?. As Jim mentioned earlier, I just ended up using trebles again for no good reason I can think of.
As time goes by I find that I'm using smaller and smaller deadbaits as I can find no advantage at all to big deads, I think the bait type (sea,coarse,etc..) is far more important than size. Big singles and small baits seem to give very effective hooking, even when the hook is barbless, I've had no noticeable problems in the past and I've had a couple of 20's this autumn that have taken to the air and stayed on. Small baits such as mini-smelt, sprats, 3-4'' roach, etc, won't mask a 3/0 barbless, and with a semi-fixed lead it's probably as near as can be got to a self hooking rig for pike. I treat it as an instant strike rig and everything is hooked in the scissors and can usually be unhooked by hand with no tools.
As for hooking pike in the scissors, I don't see the issue, the vast majority of pikers are probably most comfortable with a hookhold in that part of the pike's mouth, I know that I am.?

[DavyMc]

Been using Drennans for a long while and VB partridge before that probably more than 25 years so tried a few things out. Started with them because was dropping fish off on the trebles and switched to vb doubles and noticed how much easier it was to hook em. Only use size 4's as the 6 are too light and bend and the 2's are big. Can bend size 4 if you really try and the fish does as well, serious stick

Was catching a load of fish early 2000's and noticed similarity coming through in the hooking. Decided to try dropping the second hook as the only time it worked was going in roof of the mouth, the gills or inside the mouth somewhere even the top of the gut. Once dropped the other hook all the fish were scissors, just inside or in the beak so supposed the second hook was stopping the first finding the corner of the mouth.

The hookless rig we called it, catch and release instantly first time I tried it next run in the side of the mouth Works wonders on small baits

If remember right Archie Bradock?? did exactly the same thing 20 or more years ago but using the double hook the right way round and tying it on. Use the bigger gape side to hold the bait with and small side free easy..

[pikingslabber]

Some great feedback! Cant beat tbe benefit of experience i suppose. Interesting that both you guys are happy to fish small baits, as always thought bigger the trout the better, maybe that applies to livies lol... There was a theory about pike not expending energy chasing small baits around when one large meal will do.. Loada cack me thi ks

Be drennan doubles for me for the next while and will report back in a few months how its gong.... If i can find any pike ha

[Gonk]

I think I am being a bit thick here
So I am tying these up using one double hook and attach the bait through the tail root as you would with the top trble

Or am I tying them up with 2 doubles as I would with 2 trebles

[pikingslabber]

both perhaps,depending on size of bait,,and in the tail root, or as davie perhaps suggested through the adipose fin if its trout could be a good idea

[DavyMc]

I think I am being a bit thick here
So I am tying these up using one double hook and attach the bait through the tail root as you would with the top trble

Or am I tying them up with 2 doubles as I would with 2 trebles

Nope just hard to get your head round to start with. Small to medium bait of 4 inch one hook, larger bait 2 hooks and off you go. Use the larger gaped hook to hook the bait around the tail area, round the backbone on soft baits or adipose fin area in troot or tough skinned jobs.
I put some foam on the little hook to offset their weight eg hookless rig

[Gonk]

Ahhhh getting it now , laid the hooks next to the wire and I see now where we are heading, gonna tie some up ready for next week

Cheers fellas

[Marty]

having been round the hook type circle a couple of times now i have to say doubles have disappeared from my armoury all together.

doubles have the propensity/ability to lay flat against the bait which can seriously affect hooking efficiency.

so its trebles all the way for me, although on occasions i still use single hooks in my rigs.

[Fish on....]

You cant question the use of trebles in pike fishing, the whole world will come to an end

[Andrew]

So I cant question doubles and circles, well thats me in a huff.

[DizzyDave]

Have you tried a treble huff Andrew?