River zander

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Steven Whybrow
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River zander

Post by Steven Whybrow »

Hi, started doing a bit of zander fishing starting from back end of september last yr and been really disappointed with the results,ive totally blanked apart from a couple of small pike on lamprey.My questions are im I fishing at the wrong times 8 till 5(should I be night fishing for a better chance) and are livebaits a must,ive used only deads roach lamprey and sand eel,its a well known river but expected to start catching after a couple of trips.cheers ste
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Re: River zander

Post by Duncan Holmes »

my zander fishing experience is limited to the fens.

three vital things in my book,

freshly killed deadbeats or very recently frozen by yourself
fishing dusk till dawn
mobile approach, even if restricted to one swim plenty of recasts.
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Re: River zander

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad »

My zander fishing is limited to the Great ouse.

two vital things in my book,

freshly killed deadbaits or ones that ave very much alive
fishing after dark

Cheers Alan
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Re: River zander

Post by Kev Berry »

My zander fishing is limited to the Trent

several vital things in my book

fresh baits whether alive or recently deceased or GOOD frozen baits--refrozen stuff isn't much good, so freeze your own. I have yet to catch a zander on a sea bait out the trent.
Trent zander havnt read the zander books---so fish for them anytime, bright and sunny, shallow water, big baits, big leads, baits well off bottom.
Don't expect them to stay in one spot, they move around quite a bit, find the prey and they not be far away. Certain stretches of the Trent have few zander for some reason, while half a mile away there are dozens of em.---move swims if you don't catch. Don't ignore fast water, they in there.
Have fun :wink:
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Re: River zander

Post by andrew_nagel »

My biggest zeds have come in daylight. They like a moving bait. And you are as likely to get them on a well fished crankbait as you are on a livey. So use both if you can.
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Re: River zander

Post by Dennis M »

It's all about experience and luck. Some days you might catch 5 zander with a small livebait, the other day the chap next to you with popped up deads is the only one getting bites.
Zander can be really finnicky bait-wise.

Be sure to keep resistance on the take to a minimum. You are much much more likely to get a dropped run zander fishing than pike fishing, for whatever reason that is.

Time of day depends on location and time of year. Usually the best hours are the first hours of darkness, and the first hours of light.
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Re: River zander

Post by Steve D »

Steven Whybrow wrote: Tue May 09 2017 21:03 -
Hi, started doing a bit of zander fishing starting from back end of september last yr and been really disappointed with the results,ive totally blanked apart from a couple of small pike on lamprey.My questions are im I fishing at the wrong times 8 till 5(should I be night fishing for a better chance) and are livebaits a must,ive used only deads roach lamprey and sand eel,its a well known river but expected to start catching after a couple of trips.cheers ste
i would fish at least 2 hours into dark and see if that helps as they tend to get on the move more when the light fades.

Deads work well enough, i tend to get more jacks on lives, but as others have said keep your options open. :thumbs:
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Re: River zander

Post by Steven Whybrow »

Thanks guys for the replays,the river is actually the Trent on a very well known stretch were its very hard to move swims for the barbel anglers',I fish this stretch for convieniance as you can park the car in your swim,maybe I'm being lazy?will definitely think about night fishing and maybe a different stretch.
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Re: River zander

Post by davelumb »

Zander can be nomadic and not all swims are equal. That's probably partly why you haven't done so well, although fishing 'office hours' isn't usually the best option for zeds if you can fish the darker hours.
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Re: River zander

Post by Duncan Holmes »

davelumb wrote: Thu May 11 2017 13:41 -
Zander can be nomadic and not all swims are equal. That's probably partly why you haven't done so well, although fishing 'office hours' isn't usually the best option for zeds if you can fish the darker hours.
:thumbs: I caught far more zander by leap frogging at night that I did by camping out in one swim. Never really nailed why they would favour one area over another seamed very random to me, with some nights a previously blank area would be stacked with them
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Re: River zander

Post by Fentiger01 »

Great advice from some top chaps there mate. Zander are an awesome quarry, enjoy!

Got to be honest, as long as I freeze them myself (shortly after they expire) I'd be happy using frozen deads pretty much anywhere......

Although they can come at any time under the right conditions, a top tip is fishing into dark a bit if you can. Just gives you a little extra chance of a run......
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Re: River zander

Post by Steven Whybrow »

Thanks again lads,im definately going to start night fishing for them and going to move swims more often were I can,to be honest im becoming a bit obsessed and ive never caught one.The rivers are a big change for me as ive fished stillwaters for pike for twenty yrs,I always feel im doing summat wrong but wont no till ive caught one I suppose cheers ste.
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Re: River zander

Post by Barbelist »

For big river Zander I'm one of the "hit every knock" brigade fishing my rod(s) at a steep angle (Barbel style) with the bait runners off and keeping my eyes glued to the rod tops. I normally fish short 5-6 hour sessions around the afternoon into dusk period so I can maintain the concentration needed. I like to float fish dead baits where possible simply because I like looking at a float but more often than not these days I'm finding the Zander to be in the fastest water in front of me and usually out of effective float fishing range. I now start most trips with both rods set up on leger stems with 2-3oz leads positioned well out in the flow - often past mid river, wherever the flow seems keenest.

One thing that I have had to adjust to when after Z'ds is my mindset in relation to pick ups, in that Zander pick up and eventually swallow their prey completely differently to Pike who take the bait across the flank and turn and swallow it head first in one movement shortly after....

For me, the Zander attacks it's meal using their front canine teeth, usually to disable the prey item and as these teeth fit into opposing sockets in the jaw, it is therefore impossible for the bait to be turned and swallowed at this point. The Zander must drop the bait once it has disabled it and then pick it up again to swallow it, often tail first.

This is where the use of a smaller bait can/will assist in hook up ratio on an immediate strike - my preferred time of strike is as soon as the rod top knocks, which incidentally very rarely signals as a single bleep on the Delkim at maximum sensitivity!! Sure, there will be times when the hook(s) fail to connect but more often than not one point at least will be inside the Zanders mouth at the point of initial pick up.

Using smaller baits will increase the rate of hook ups but will also allow every Zander in the water to pick up the bait, from 1lb all the way through the weight range....I feel there is definately something in using bigger baits for bigger Zander and I often opt for a decapitated Roach/Skimmer in the 4-6oz range as my starting point. This size bait will still be picked up by "schoolie" Zander in the 1-2lb range but rarely are they hooked as the configuration of hooks in this sized bait may well not be in their small mouth upon the initial hit. It is up to the individual angler as to whether they are happy to catch any sized fish or prefer to wait it out for a bigger one to come along

I feel it is a mistake IMO to let the run develop as in Pike fishing, using a drop off style indicator and open bail arm. On the Severn where I fish, the flow will pick up the line as it peels off the reel leaving the angler to have to retrieve this line prior to strike....all the time putting added resistance into the equation which leads to added dropped runs when Zander are concerned.

This is why I strike early as the bait taken by a Zander will have to be dropped/released at some point to allow it to be re-taken to be swallowed and timing this correctly might just be impossible....that is assuming of course that they can find and pick the bait up again!?! There is some thought that pack Zander will attack a shoal of prey fish, disabling a number of them before returning to feed a short time later....this is not proven, but adds fuel to the fire and went some way to leading me onto the method I describe here.

My preference when deadbaiting for Zander is to hit each and every indication I get, because after all is said and done....


...."Dead fish do not swim" so any movement is likely to be a pick up


Just my thoughts

Paul
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Re: River zander

Post by dropped_run »

i find this quite an interesting subject now.

All i used to do was bait fish for zander, until about 3 years ago, and I'd agree with everything Paul said above, from my experiences.

What I've found since lure fishing exclusively for them is that it just doesnt tally with bait fishing. I use big lures for zander, upto about 9 inches. With a big jighead on, these probably weigh around 3oz all in, at times
I find the zander to take these so savagely that more often than not the lure (the jighead) is right at the back of the mouth. I never found this when bait fishing, even with small livebaits. Whether its just a presentational difference I dont know, but i find it bizarre it differs so much between the two aspects.
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Re: River zander

Post by Kev Berry »

Barbelist wrote: Thu May 11 2017 20:06 -
For big river Zander I'm one of the "hit every knock" brigade fishing my rod(s) at a steep angle (Barbel style) with the bait runners off and keeping my eyes glued to the rod tops. I normally fish short 5-6 hour sessions around the afternoon into dusk period so I can maintain the concentration needed. I like to float fish dead baits where possible simply because I like looking at a float but more often than not these days I'm finding the Zander to be in the fastest water in front of me and usually out of effective float fishing range. I now start most trips with both rods set up on leger stems with 2-3oz leads positioned well out in the flow - often past mid river, wherever the flow seems keenest.

One thing that I have had to adjust to when after Z'ds is my mindset in relation to pick ups, in that Zander pick up and eventually swallow their prey completely differently to Pike who take the bait across the flank and turn and swallow it head first in one movement shortly after....

For me, the Zander attacks it's meal using their front canine teeth, usually to disable the prey item and as these teeth fit into opposing sockets in the jaw, it is therefore impossible for the bait to be turned and swallowed at this point. The Zander must drop the bait once it has disabled it and then pick it up again to swallow it, often tail first.

This is where the use of a smaller bait can/will assist in hook up ratio on an immediate strike - my preferred time of strike is as soon as the rod top knocks, which incidentally very rarely signals as a single bleep on the Delkim at maximum sensitivity!! Sure, there will be times when the hook(s) fail to connect but more often than not one point at least will be inside the Zanders mouth at the point of initial pick up.

Using smaller baits will increase the rate of hook ups but will also allow every Zander in the water to pick up the bait, from 1lb all the way through the weight range....I feel there is definately something in using bigger baits for bigger Zander and I often opt for a decapitated Roach/Skimmer in the 4-6oz range as my starting point. This size bait will still be picked up by "schoolie" Zander in the 1-2lb range but rarely are they hooked as the configuration of hooks in this sized bait may well not be in their small mouth upon the initial hit. It is up to the individual angler as to whether they are happy to catch any sized fish or prefer to wait it out for a bigger one to come along

I feel it is a mistake IMO to let the run develop as in Pike fishing, using a drop off style indicator and open bail arm. On the Severn where I fish, the flow will pick up the line as it peels off the reel leaving the angler to have to retrieve this line prior to strike....all the time putting added resistance into the equation which leads to added dropped runs when Zander are concerned.

This is why I strike early as the bait taken by a Zander will have to be dropped/released at some point to allow it to be re-taken to be swallowed and timing this correctly might just be impossible....that is assuming of course that they can find and pick the bait up again!?! There is some thought that pack Zander will attack a shoal of prey fish, disabling a number of them before returning to feed a short time later....this is not proven, but adds fuel to the fire and went some way to leading me onto the method I describe here.

My preference when deadbaiting for Zander is to hit each and every indication I get, because after all is said and done....


...."Dead fish do not swim" so any movement is likely to be a pick up


Just my thoughts

Paul
just a couple of queries to the above ---how does a zanders teeth locate in the sockets in the opposite jaw with a 4 oz bait or bigger in its chops? And if it is picking a dead fish up it dosnt need to disable it, so its straight down the hatch (hence hit em as soon as).
Agree with the rest :thumbs:
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Re: River zander

Post by Barbelist »

Kev,

I stand corrected buddy...for me my deads are often popped up to mimic a live just off bottom hence I feel that they hit to disable before coming back (although not always)to eat their prey...I have had the initial "hit" before and not struck immediately, waiting for the return and it never did - so I bang every knock now just in case!!

Just my thoughts

Paul
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Re: River zander

Post by Kev Berry »

Barbelist wrote: Fri May 12 2017 07:35 -
Kev,

I stand corrected buddy...for me my deads are often popped up to mimic a live just off bottom hence I feel that they hit to disable before coming back (although not always)to eat their prey...I have had the initial "hit" before and not struck immediately, waiting for the return and it never did - so I bang every knock now just in case!!

Just my thoughts

Paul
something worth watching here Paul,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFsVvRysJ5o
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Re: River zander

Post by Barbelist »

Kev Berry wrote: Fri May 12 2017 10:01 -
Barbelist wrote: Fri May 12 2017 07:35 -
Kev,

I stand corrected buddy...for me my deads are often popped up to mimic a live just off bottom hence I feel that they hit to disable before coming back (although not always)to eat their prey...I have had the initial "hit" before and not struck immediately, waiting for the return and it never did - so I bang every knock now just in case!!

Just my thoughts

Paul
something worth watching here Paul,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFsVvRysJ5o
Interesting....seems to grab the fish and puncture/disable it first and a really quick turn tail first and swallow. Goes some way to showing, as I mused, that they must let go of the fish before swallowing - however quick, as their dentistry does not allow them to swallow straight away?

Cheers

Paul
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Re: River zander

Post by Kev Berry »

Barbelist wrote: Fri May 12 2017 11:04 -
Kev Berry wrote: Fri May 12 2017 10:01 -
Barbelist wrote: Fri May 12 2017 07:35 -
Kev,

I stand corrected buddy...for me my deads are often popped up to mimic a live just off bottom hence I feel that they hit to disable before coming back (although not always)to eat their prey...I have had the initial "hit" before and not struck immediately, waiting for the return and it never did - so I bang every knock now just in case!!

Just my thoughts

Paul
something worth watching here Paul,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFsVvRysJ5o
Interesting....seems to grab the fish and puncture/disable it first and a really quick turn tail first and swallow. Goes some way to showing, as I mused, that they must let go of the fish before swallowing - however quick, as their dentistry does not allow them to swallow straight away?

Cheers

Paul
Lightning fast let go and suck at the same time---that was some size fish for that little fellow to get down
The related videos on the right showed some tanked pike and perch eating fish---again interesting watching the different ways the scoff them, the head on approach by the pike and straight down the throat without even touching the sides was impressive :eek:
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Re: River zander

Post by Esoxuk »

Kev Berry wrote: Fri May 12 2017 11:10 -
Barbelist wrote: Fri May 12 2017 11:04 -
Kev Berry wrote: Fri May 12 2017 10:01 -
Barbelist wrote: Fri May 12 2017 07:35 -
Kev,

I stand corrected buddy...for me my deads are often popped up to mimic a live just off bottom hence I feel that they hit to disable before coming back (although not always)to eat their prey...I have had the initial "hit" before and not struck immediately, waiting for the return and it never did - so I bang every knock now just in case!!

Just my thoughts

Paul
something worth watching here Paul,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFsVvRysJ5o
Interesting....seems to grab the fish and puncture/disable it first and a really quick turn tail first and swallow. Goes some way to showing, as I mused, that they must let go of the fish before swallowing - however quick, as their dentistry does not allow them to swallow straight away?

Cheers

Paul
Lightning fast let go and suck at the same time---that was some size fish for that little fellow to get down
The related videos on the right showed some tanked pike and perch eating fish---again interesting watching the different ways the scoff them, the head on approach by the pike and straight down the throat without even touching the sides was impressive :eek:
... and shows just how important good bite detection is to avoid deep hooking
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Re: River zander

Post by Steven Whybrow »

That sums it up for me paul,I can not get my head round not using some sort of drop off with open bail arm,the first thing im definately doing wrong are my rods are not high enough,the other 1 ive struggled with is my indication,I cast out let it drop on a tight line and then pull a bit of line off then set baitrunner ? But sometimes the flows dragging line of so its put me off fishing near the middle of the river.Also when fishing at night would you usr a tripod or just banksticks cherrs again ste.
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Re: River zander

Post by Barbelist »

As I only fish the short trips to maintain concentration I normally use a pair of old storm rods as bank sticks with the rods high...I have a nightlight attached to the rod tops and stare intently at them - watching for any movement. I do not have the bait runners engaged as I want to strike as quickly as possible and even the dis-engaging of the bait runner is a delay I can ill afford...the only time the bait runners are engaged is when I have a fish on, I quickly click the other reel into free spool or when nature calls as I really don't want to see the rod heading for the drink!!

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Re: River zander

Post by Fentiger01 »

Interesting subject this one. I used a heavy fixed lead / sunken paternoster combination for 15 years on the Fens and can't recall a deep hooked fish on it, you might get a twitch of the rod-tip or a single bleep on it but a fraction later it was a single toner as the Zed tore off with the bait. I had more fish on that rig than I have on all other rigs I've used, put together. That said the water although often flowing, was probably pretty sedentary when compared with the Trent or the Severn.

I'm convinced there is something different translated across running, sedentary or still water, in the way a take is detected as a Zander takes a bait. On stillwaters for instance, I would never use a drop-off arm but a bobbin instead, as in my experience a 1 inch movement or more of a correctly set bobbin potentially equals a deep-hooked fish. Yet on fast moving water, I'd definitely favour the same 'rod-tip' approach as Paul mentioned earlier.

The shallow midland canals and their fairly smallish (although very game) Zeds mix it up even more. One hit can be a total screamer designed to pull your rod in, whilst the next will only nudge a small float and make it dimple the surface but no more; and all in the same swim at the same time!

Interesting topic. :thumbs:
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Re: River zander

Post by Neville Fickling »

Kev Berry wrote: Fri May 12 2017 10:01 -
Barbelist wrote: Fri May 12 2017 07:35 -
Kev,

I stand corrected buddy...for me my deads are often popped up to mimic a live just off bottom hence I feel that they hit to disable before coming back (although not always)to eat their prey...I have had the initial "hit" before and not struck immediately, waiting for the return and it never did - so I bang every knock now just in case!!

Just my thoughts

Paul
something worth watching here Paul,

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BFsVvRysJ5o
The zander in the film had obviously been in captivity a while and was not showing normal behaviour. I did a series of experiments with zander in aquaria which showed that tail first swallowing was normal until the prey fish got to a certain size in relation to the zander then they always opted to attack the head end of the prey fish. the zander in the clip may have struggled to swallow the goldfish tail first but we didn't get to see the conclusion.
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