Zander - UK Ceiling Weight

[Fentiger01]

What weight do you reckon as a realistic maximum, that a UK Zander nowadays might reach? One of the three excellent Speakers at the mini-convention on Sunday suggested that one day we might see a 25lb+ UK Zander and it really got me thinking. There's obviously a number of superb UK waters now capable of producing outsized Zander and could we expect to see such a fish in the not too distant future?

I remember back-in-the-day when 15lb+ fish were relatively rare with Nev stating that one day there'd be 15lb+ fish reported every year, and here we are. With three or four 18lb+ Zander reported most Seasons now, does anyone think that a 25lb+ UK Zed could be on the cards any time soon?

Kind regards,
Dave

[Nige Johns]

It probably lives with the 50lb pike

[dropped_run]

I think 25+ is possible, theoretically.

One lad I follow on Instagram had 38 10kg plus fish in a couple of weeks, biggest 15+kg. Not UK obviously.

Admittedly, it’s a very different situation. We don’t have enough waters without pressure, AW now probably wont do much close to it. Lower tidal rivers, if it’s going to be anywhere I’d guess (if it’s not happened and been hushed up).

We definitely need to seed a few in some more waters…

[cookiesdaughtersdad]

Not sure if we will get a 25 in the very near future untill two or three 20s start popping up yearly, I think the current record represent whats now possible.

Cheers, Alan

[Steve Dennington]

You'd think that if 25+ was on the cards, the ressies would have produced one by now. Given that they go that size and larger elsewhere though, what are the limiting factors in the UK?

[Emma Hamilton]

I think it's unlikely we'll see a 25lb+ zander anytime soon unless some morbid, spawn bound hen fish turns up. The current record 21.05, knowing the captor, when and where it was caught on a carp bait tells me it was likely a fish on it's way out carrying spawn/water during June. The fish was caught in a backwater and not on the main river. Ive fished the back water for many years at the start of the season if its not hot and nothing anywhere close has turned up! History can repeat but not so far in 15+ years since!

Ive fished for them more than most for a number of years, 18 fish over 15lb with a best 18.12 gives me hope of a 20lb fish some-time/somewhere, but 25lb+ seems a big step for the river i fish. From afar the Trent appears to be on the up for zander weights in recent years with 20+ fish reported so maybe is the river to do it down the track. More likely for me would be one of the gravel pits close to a river with a track record of big zander. Its something I've been trying a bit in recent years but its a long old slog.

rob

[dropped_run]

You'd think that if 25+ was on the cards, the ressies would have produced one by now. Given that they go that size and larger elsewhere though, what are the limiting factors in the UK?

10-15 years ago maybe. The amount of pressure on them now is so much higher than it used to be. I suspect many don’t reach optimum sizes on either of them any more, probably because of being caught from depth earlier in their lives. How many 15+s per season, one or two maybe?

Limiting factors is a really interesting one though. Obviously I mentioned depth but you’ve got to wonder about the genetics etc, before you get to environment. Rob sounds like he’s got an interesting plan or two though

[andrew_nagel]

I think 25+ is possible, theoretically.

One lad I follow on Instagram had 38 10kg plus fish in a couple of weeks, biggest 15+kg. Not UK obviously.

Admittedly, it’s a very different situation. We don’t have enough waters without pressure, AW now probably wont do much close to it. Lower tidal rivers, if it’s going to be anywhere I’d guess (if it’s not happened and been hushed up).

We definitely need to seed a few in some more waters…

It's 38 fish between father and son over several seasons. It's unclear if that total includes their 10+ers from other waters in Denmark, Germany and Holland too as they've had them from a few places??? Outstanding catches! I pike fish one of the waters they fish, and it's a low density zander water due to commercial netting of them. Like with pike, very big zander seem to turn up due to an inbalance in population.

[dropped_run]

I think 25+ is possible, theoretically.

One lad I follow on Instagram had 38 10kg plus fish in a couple of weeks, biggest 15+kg. Not UK obviously.

Admittedly, it’s a very different situation. We don’t have enough waters without pressure, AW now probably wont do much close to it. Lower tidal rivers, if it’s going to be anywhere I’d guess (if it’s not happened and been hushed up).

We definitely need to seed a few in some more waters…

It's 38 fish between father and son over several seasons. It's unclear if that total includes their 10+ers from other waters in Denmark, Germany and Holland too as they've had them from a few places??? Outstanding catches! I pike fish one of the waters they fish, and it's a low density zander water due to commercial netting of them. Like with pike, very big zander seem to turn up due to an inbalance in population.

Oh is that seasons? Sorry Andrew, I must have misread that. It did sound too good to be true but then so do most of his fish until you see the pictures, and then you can genuinely dislike him on principle

Out of sheer nosiness, what’s your biggest from over there? I seem to recall seeing a pic of a giant a while back

[cookiesdaughtersdad]

You'd think that if 25+ was on the cards, the ressies would have produced one by now. Given that they go that size and larger elsewhere though, what are the limiting factors in the UK?

10-15 years ago maybe. The amount of pressure on them now is so much higher than it used to be. I suspect many don’t reach optimum sizes on either of them any more, probably because of being caught from depth earlier in their lives. How many 15+s per season, one or two maybe?

Limiting factors is a really interesting one though. Obviously I mentioned depth but you’ve got to wonder about the genetics etc, before you get to environment. Rob sounds like he’s got an interesting plan or two though

The genetics idea is good, all the zander (so I can think) in the England came form just 97 fish taken from Woburn Abbey, those fish are descendants from the stock that the Duke of Bedford had pit in many years before and so already would had gone through some natural selection. It may take a few more years to breed out the muddy puddle part of their genetics and become true river, lake or reservoir fish.

Cheers, Alan

[Neville Fickling]

I’d say a 25 lb zander is possible. Probably not in my lifetime. Needs something special to grow a zander to monster size. . Remember 20 pounders are rare.

[Fentiger01]

There were another strain of Swedish Zander put into a pit near Mepal in the early 60's Alan according to the Zed Bible (Zander - Rickards & Fickling) and so they would likely be able to provide a slightly different genetic fingerprint to the Schleswig Holstein fish stocked into the Duke of Bedford's lakes from whom it is widely assumed, that the vast majority of UK Zander descend. Given the locality of these fish versus the wide spread of the descendants of the 97, I'd think it unlikely that there's been much mixing of genetics between them though, if any at all.

I'd agree with a lot of the points of view on here, I think if a UK fish of this magnitude was to turn up then it would likely be the result of an extremely low stocking density (i.e. one or two escapee's), it'd have to be a rich environment and angling pressure would likely be really low, if at all present. That said, there are tidal reaches of big rivers where anglers don't venture due to their inhospitable nature, who knows what may be hunkered down in those areas? No doubt as with many of you, I have seen a few unexpected surprises during my angling life, a Zander of this size would be the icing on the cake though.

Not so long ago the thought of a 20 was scoffed at by many.

[Emma Hamilton]

I’d say a 25 lb zander is possible. Probably not in my lifetime. Needs something special to grow a zander to monster size. . Remember 20 pounders are rare.

That's about right. There have been around ten fish reported 20-21lb fish to date, some of them are a bit 'sketchy' in the weighing, certainly one of the Severn fish changed weights a couple of times to suit some purpose. Rare beasts.

rob

[Ian Crook]

Genetics is definitely the key, has anyone seen or heard of a 1m plus Zander here? Below that length I think we are stuck at or around the current record!
The really big fish in Holland and The Baltic, etc.. are growing to 106+ cm, which allows that extra weight to accumulate

[Runaway Train]

If the closed season on rivers gets removed i can see a spawn bound fish upping the numbers to the 21-23lb range but Zed's have been in the said tidal river a long time now and it would have done a mega fish (25+) by now.

The Trent is the interesting one and i can see it beating the current record over the coming years.

[Neville Fickling]

You'd think that if 25+ was on the cards, the ressies would have produced one by now. Given that they go that size and larger elsewhere though, what are the limiting factors in the UK?

10-15 years ago maybe. The amount of pressure on them now is so much higher than it used to be. I suspect many don’t reach optimum sizes on either of them any more, probably because of being caught from depth earlier in their lives. How many 15+s per season, one or two maybe?

Limiting factors is a really interesting one though. Obviously I mentioned depth but you’ve got to wonder about the genetics etc, before you get to environment. Rob sounds like he’s got an interesting plan or two though

The genetics idea is good, all the zander (so I can think) in the England came form just 97 fish taken from Woburn Abbey, those fish are descendants from the stock that the Duke of Bedford had pit in many years before and so already would had gone through some natural selection. It may take a few more years to breed out the muddy puddle part of their genetics and become true river, lake or reservoir fish.

Cheers, Alan

Actually zander were taken from Woburn to Hengrave Hall. There they bred and 100 small zander were taken to Stow bridge on the channel. 3 died

[cookiesdaughtersdad]

You'd think that if 25+ was on the cards, the ressies would have produced one by now. Given that they go that size and larger elsewhere though, what are the limiting factors in the UK?

10-15 years ago maybe. The amount of pressure on them now is so much higher than it used to be. I suspect many don’t reach optimum sizes on either of them any more, probably because of being caught from depth earlier in their lives. How many 15+s per season, one or two maybe?

Limiting factors is a really interesting one though. Obviously I mentioned depth but you’ve got to wonder about the genetics etc, before you get to environment. Rob sounds like he’s got an interesting plan or two though

The genetics idea is good, all the zander (so I can think) in the England came form just 97 fish taken from Woburn Abbey, those fish are descendants from the stock that the Duke of Bedford had pit in many years before and so already would had gone through some natural selection. It may take a few more years to breed out the muddy puddle part of their genetics and become true river, lake or reservoir fish.

Cheers, Alan

Actually zander were taken from Woburn to Hengrave Hall. There they bred and 100 small zander were taken to Stow bridge on the channel. 3 died

Cheers, Alan

[cookiesdaughtersdad]

There were another strain of Swedish Zander put into a pit near Mepal in the early 60's Alan according to the Zed Bible (Zander - Rickards & Fickling) and so they would likely be able to provide a slightly different genetic fingerprint to the Schleswig Holstein fish stocked into the Duke of Bedford's lakes from whom it is widely assumed, that the vast majority of UK Zander descend. Given the locality of these fish versus the wide spread of the descendants of the 97, I'd think it unlikely that there's been much mixing of genetics between them though, if any at all.

I'd agree with a lot of the points of view on here, I think if a UK fish of this magnitude was to turn up then it would likely be the result of an extremely low stocking density (i.e. one or two escapee's), it'd have to be a rich environment and angling pressure would likely be really low, if at all present. That said, there are tidal reaches of big rivers where anglers don't venture due to their inhospitable nature, who knows what may be hunkered down in those areas? No doubt as with many of you, I have seen a few unexpected surprises during my angling life, a Zander of this size would be the icing on the cake though.

Not so long ago the thought of a 20 was scoffed at by many.

Interesting

Cheers, Alan

[cookiesdaughtersdad]

Genetics is definitely the key, has anyone seen or heard of a 1m plus Zander here? Below that length I think we are stuck at or around the current record!
The really big fish in Holland and The Baltic, etc.. are growing to 106+ cm, which allows that extra weight to accumulate

Not only do these fish reach the extra length as you say, Ian they also seam able to (using a carpy exspresion) drop a gut

Cheers, Alan

[andrew_nagel]

The Scandinavian waters hold a very diverse range of prey fish. All the usual roach, perch, bream, rudd, crucians, gudgeon, eels etc and add to the mix the likes of lamprey, smelt, helt, helting (vendace), bleak, orfe and there's a lot of species for the zander to munch on. Many of the waters contain around 25 species.

[Neville Fickling]

The Scandinavian waters hold a very diverse range of prey fish. All the usual roach, perch, bream, rudd, crucians, gudgeon, eels etc and add to the mix the likes of lamprey, smelt, helt, helting (vendace), bleak, orfe and there's a lot of species for the zander to munch on. Many of the waters contain around 25 species.

Prey fish diversity is important yet in the USA and Canada where the number of species is mind boggling the walleye rarely gets above 15 lb. I suspect it’s the density per acre of prey that’s the key

[Muskie]

Out of interest on the Continent which habit do these really large zeds mainly come from river or lake?

[Neville Fickling]

Big ones come from both. the Dutch Rivers are big.

[andrew_nagel]

Out of interest on the Continent which habit do these really large zeds mainly come from river or lake?

Both. In my experience the big Scandinavian lake zeds usually come from waters where there is some long term netting harvest of them.

[Fentiger01]

Out of interest on the Continent which habit do these really large zeds mainly come from river or lake?

Both. In my experience the big Scandinavian lake zeds usually come from waters where there is some long term netting harvest of them.

The odd one that manages to elude them and lives out its life on its own Andrew?

[andrew_nagel]

Out of interest on the Continent which habit do these really large zeds mainly come from river or lake?

Both. In my experience the big Scandinavian lake zeds usually come from waters where there is some long term netting harvest of them.

The odd one that manages to elude them and lives out its life on its own Andrew?

Not just the odd one. The waters I'm thinking of are big waters where netting will reduce the number of fish coming through, but the average size goes up. There's factors like zebra muscles that the netters have to consider. Netters tend not to set their nets on the harder bottom areas with zebras because the zebras both colonise the nets and nylon nets also get cut just being pulled over the zebra beds. The netters are as much a part of the waterway culture over here as anglers, and accepting that and being civil with them opens up a rich channel of info.

[Fentiger01]

Out of interest on the Continent which habit do these really large zeds mainly come from river or lake?

Both. In my experience the big Scandinavian lake zeds usually come from waters where there is some long term netting harvest of them.

The odd one that manages to elude them and lives out its life on its own Andrew?

Not just the odd one. The waters I'm thinking of are big waters where netting will reduce the number of fish coming through, but the average size goes up. There's factors like zebra muscles that the netters have to consider. Netters tend not to set their nets on the harder bottom areas with zebras because the zebras both colonise the nets and nylon nets also get cut just being pulled over the zebra beds. The netters are as much a part of the waterway culture over here as anglers, and accepting that and being civil with them opens up a rich channel of info.

Interesting that Andrew.

[Muskie]

Cheers for the replies Andrew and Nev.

[cookiesdaughtersdad]

Out of interest on the Continent which habit do these really large zeds mainly come from river or lake?

Both. In my experience the big Scandinavian lake zeds usually come from waters where there is some long term netting harvest of them.

The size of the pike kept getting bigger as they netted Deggy and culled the pike but it was it actually angling pressure that finished the water after the netting had stopped?

Cheers, ALan

[Neville Fickling]

Out of interest on the Continent which habit do these really large zeds mainly come from river or lake?

Both. In my experience the big Scandinavian lake zeds usually come from waters where there is some long term netting harvest of them.

The size of the pike kept getting bigger as they netted Deggy and culled the pike but it was it actually angling pressure that finished the water after the netting had stopped?

Cheers, ALan

. Low water levels and failure to spawn was one reason it went down the pan. Also summer fishing. Plus taking fish to the bank for pics.