Out of interest on the Continent which habit do these really large zeds mainly come from river or lake?
Both. In my experience the big Scandinavian lake zeds usually come from waters where there is some long term netting harvest of them.
The size of the pike kept getting bigger as they netted Deggy and culled the pike but it was it actually angling pressure that finished the water after the netting had stopped?
Cheers, ALan
. Low water levels and failure to spawn was one reason it went down the pan. Also summer fishing. Plus taking fish to the bank for pics.
So you agree then?
Cheers, Alan
"Luck is what happens when preparation meets opportunity" Seneca, some Roman chap.
I personally think they have reached their ceiling weight after 50 odd years, but an exceptional 'freak' fish will appear, with a weight close to 25 lbs - remember record fish are by definition exceptional. I doubt all 97 that were introduced survived to spawn, so the gene pool is even smaller that we think, and this is likely to introduce a stunting effect, so that UK zander will never reach the ultimate size of Continental fish.
The Scandinavian waters hold a very diverse range of prey fish. All the usual roach, perch, bream, rudd, crucians, gudgeon, eels etc and add to the mix the likes of lamprey, smelt, helt, helting (vendace), bleak, orfe and there's a lot of species for the zander to munch on. Many of the waters contain around 25 species.
Prey fish diversity is important yet in the USA and Canada where the number of species is mind boggling the walleye rarely gets above 15 lb. I suspect it’s the density per acre of prey that’s the key
We need to chuck some of the Mepal pit zander into the fen waters. They were from Sweden!!
It would be surprising if that hasn't happened by now.
From the little I've managed to find to read about them over the years they seemed to be only lightly fished for, although I can recall reading somewhere that they did come out to 15lbs. I can't imagine why someone would go to the trouble of taking them out of a pit like this though, only to pop them in a different, more populated fenland river or drain. Especially given all the hassle involved that is.
All that said, Swedish Zander, I'm sure those big females would be proper good looking fish (fully in keeping with other Swedish females)
Eagles may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!
We need to chuck some of the Mepal pit zander into the fen waters. They were from Sweden!!
I seriously doubt there's any left in there now. Saffron Walden Angling club lost it a while back and it's now a noddy carp syndicate. I fished it about 20 years ago and caught them to low doubles, but there were only a handful of them in there. They didn't look any different to zander you'd catch from the Delph that's 30 yards away from the lake, albeit I recall they were quite dark in colour - probably due to the deep, gin clear water of the lake. I also caught zander from Claydon, that was ten years ago, so they may still be knocking around? Can't recall their origin off the top of my head.
I'd go with what most people are saying - 20, maybe 22 tops? But I do like to think 25lb plus is possible, especially if they get into a certain water and that I think is just a matter of time. On the other two waters I am thinking of, angling pressure from the growing number of stupid competitions in the warmer months, along with the large number of predator anglers who target zander, I suspect isn't helping. But, you never quite know and a low 20 only needs to a few bream to go 25...
The Scandinavian waters hold a very diverse range of prey fish. All the usual roach, perch, bream, rudd, crucians, gudgeon, eels etc and add to the mix the likes of lamprey, smelt, helt, helting (vendace), bleak, orfe and there's a lot of species for the zander to munch on. Many of the waters contain around 25 species.
Prey fish diversity is important yet in the USA and Canada where the number of species is mind boggling the walleye rarely gets above 15 lb. I suspect it’s the density per acre of prey that’s the key
Sauger rarely get above 10lb
I had a couple of sauger from Manitoba years ago. They look much more like zander than walleye.
We need to chuck some of the Mepal pit zander into the fen waters. They were from Sweden!!
I seriously doubt there's any left in there now. Saffron Walden Angling club lost it a while back and it's now a noddy carp syndicate. I fished it about 20 years ago and caught them to low doubles, but there were only a handful of them in there. They didn't look any different to zander you'd catch from the Delph that's 30 yards away from the lake, albeit I recall they were quite dark in colour - probably due to the deep, gin clear water of the lake. I also caught zander from Claydon, that was ten years ago, so they may still be knocking around? Can't recall their origin off the top of my head.
I'd go with what most people are saying - 20, maybe 22 tops? But I do like to think 25lb plus is possible, especially if they get into a certain water and that I think is just a matter of time. On the other two waters I am thinking of, angling pressure from the growing number of stupid competitions in the warmer months, along with the large number of predator anglers who target zander, I suspect isn't helping. But, you never quite know and a low 20 only needs to a few bream to go 25...
No reason why they should look any different. Thanks for the info mark. I caught my first carp ever about 6 lb from a pit leased by Basil Chilvers on the other side of the road!!!
What weight do you reckon as a realistic maximum, that a UK Zander nowadays might reach? One of the three excellent Speakers at the mini-convention on Sunday suggested that one day we might see a 25lb+ UK Zander and it really got me thinking. There's obviously a number of superb UK waters now capable of producing outsized Zander and could we expect to see such a fish in the not too distant future?
I remember back-in-the-day when 15lb+ fish were relatively rare with Nev stating that one day there'd be 15lb+ fish reported every year, and here we are. With three or four 18lb+ Zander reported most Seasons now, does anyone think that a 25lb+ UK Zed could be on the cards any time soon?
What weight do you reckon as a realistic maximum, that a UK Zander nowadays might reach? One of the three excellent Speakers at the mini-convention on Sunday suggested that one day we might see a 25lb+ UK Zander and it really got me thinking. There's obviously a number of superb UK waters now capable of producing outsized Zander and could we expect to see such a fish in the not too distant future?
I remember back-in-the-day when 15lb+ fish were relatively rare with Nev stating that one day there'd be 15lb+ fish reported every year, and here we are. With three or four 18lb+ Zander reported most Seasons now, does anyone think that a 25lb+ UK Zed could be on the cards any time soon?
Kind regards,
Dave
Maybe to you mate, here's hoping,
Ha Shivvy my oldest friend.
Even if I did manage something even close to that size mate, it'd still only occupy the same dreams that those Welland Gudgeon did all those years ago.....
Eagles may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!
Claydon was a remarkable lake absolutely stuffed full of fish. Well known for its catfish, but it also held pike and zander too. You would have thought that the catfish would dominate so other predators would not do well at all, but i caught a 14lbs zander there in 2001.
Claydon was a remarkable lake absolutely stuffed full of fish. Well known for its catfish, but it also held pike and zander too. You would have thought that the catfish would dominate so other predators would not do well at all, but i caught a 14lbs zander there in 2001.
I remember hearing about that one Muskie mate, a belting fish.
Eagles may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!
Cheers. It's still my biggest Zander, but it was a fluke caught on worms popped up for cats.
I have caught legitimately Zeds on two midland ressies on fly with the more well known for specimens catching close to my pb. I quite like zeds and think they are a good sporting fish. Certainly on an eight weight in any case. What i find interesting is Zeds even in the same water can be jet black and others almost green and others brown.
Its just that good damn awful eye they have like a blue bottle fly which i find a bit disconcerting!
Cheers. It's still my biggest Zander, but it was a fluke caught on worms popped up for cats.
I have caught legitimately Zeds on two midland ressies on fly with the more well known for specimens catching close to my pb. I quite like zeds and think they are a good sporting fish. Certainly on an eight weight in any case. What i find interesting is Zeds even in the same water can be jet black and others almost green and others brown.
Its just that good damn awful eye they have like a blue bottle fly which i find a bit disconcerting!
I used to love how the big old eye they have used to almost shine purple in night time photo's (an ace surprise when you'd caught a nice one, got the pictures developed and picked them up from boots ) Back in the day that memory lol.
But I remember the first really big Zed I saw, caught by Rob Shallcroft about a decade ago and I couldn't get away from the fact that it's eyes seemed to look just like the black ball off a pool table, they were absolutely massive!
(All the better for seeing their Prey with)
Eagles may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!
When i first read about Zander they always stated they liked to feed in low light levels yet my biggest fish have all come on blindingly bright sunny days including on the 2 midlands trout ressies. I guess there are really no fixed rules.
When i first read about Zander they always stated they liked to feed in low light levels yet my biggest fish have all come on blindingly bright sunny days including on the 2 midlands trout ressies. I guess there are really no fixed rules.
I had one yesterday 6 lb in 10 foot of clear water on a super shad. Only take of the morning. Usually they are put off by bright sunlight in shallow water but where there is no deeper water they have to feed or starve. Usually they feed at night.
When i first read about Zander they always stated they liked to feed in low light levels yet my biggest fish have all come on blindingly bright sunny days including on the 2 midlands trout ressies. I guess there are really no fixed rules.
Hello Mate, I've had a good few into double figures after dawn on Summer mornngs, between 5 & 7am in Jun, Jul & Aug. From a few different venues too.
Eagles may soar, but Weasels don't get sucked into jet engines!
From experience I believe that many species of fish can achieve sizes we would consider unbelievable in the UK, but they may never get caught or claimed as records by anglers for a variety of reasons.
Zander can live up to 20 years and there have been multiple claimed over 40lb from Austria, Germany, Belarus and Russia etc, not all were rod and line caught and most were unverified but there are certainly photos of multiple very very large specimens.
Given the right conditions there is the possibility of a freak giant zander somewhere in this country, probably in a trout reservoir or an unfished drinking water reservoir connected to a river system with a zander population.. The odds of that single fish getting caught won't be high though as it may spend its entire life tucked away somewhere that anglers cannot even present a bait near it.
To put it in perspective I have held and witnessed two perch in the UK over 8lb, weighed and witnessed by multiple people when we drained and commercially netted a large chalk fed fly fishery in the south east. The record is currently 6lb 3oz. Those giant perch had never been fished for and never will, hence they had been left undisturbed as a population and the lakes in question held a healthy stock of absolute giants.
I have audited carp syndicates being netted to remove "nuisance fish" where unbelivable specimen tench, bream, rudd or roach have been caught and removed. Due to the anglers reporting that they were catching too many small nuisance fish. Many carp anglers apparently catch truly giant specimens of other species accidentally and have no idea what they have caught, they are only interested in the named lake record mudpig.
I have been involved in netting or electrofishing large stillwaters where completely unexpected species have been found despite often heavy angling pressure. A number of lakes had large catfish populations despite not a single cat ever being caught and reported. Several small commercial fisheries have suddenly had truly enormous Cats just suddenly turn up, others have had fish kills where gigantic pike or eels are discovered dead despite no one ever knowing they were there.
A caravan park pond of a couple of acres near me, that was stocked a very long time ago, had six siamese bighead carp suddenly float up dead one year, the largest was 80+lbs but the owners had no idea they existed and not one had ever been caught. Anglers had reported hooking unstoppable fish occasionally and it had been assumed that large carp were the cause.
What fish are in a water and how big they are is always going to be a slight unknown with zander (or perch, eels, catfish or pike), unlike carp fishing where the fish will all be named and you can research what flavour boilie and type of rig they have previously been caught on, the mystery of maybe hooking something exceptional is one of the best things about predator fishing.
Great post fenland piker. In 2001 i saw a huge perch at my feet at dusk whilst wading on a large east midlands trout ressie (with no track record of big perch) and it was collossal with length and real depth and width. I estimated it was 7.5 lbs plus at the time. A very well known specie i mentioned it too discounted this with real disdain. Your account of the two eight pound perch evidences they exist.
Great post fenland piker. In 2001 i saw a huge perch at my feet at dusk whilst wading on a large east midlands trout ressie (with no track record of big perch) and it was collossal with length and real depth and width. I estimated it was 7.5 lbs plus at the time. A very well known specie i mentioned it too discounted this with real disdain. Your account of the two eight pound perch evidences they exist.
The fishery that I helped net has a small population of enormous perch, several had been caught on fly over the years at 5lb+ but usually in the closed season and never reliably weighed. When we drained one of the two lakes (ironically the one we thought didn't have the big perch in) we managed to net and properly weigh two at over 8lb and several "smaller" 6lb ones in excess of the current record. The larger ones were spectacular and originally when they got caught we mistook them for carp when covered in mud and weed due to the size and barrel shape of them.
It goes to show that you never really know what there might be in some waters. That 8 acre lake also suddenly turned up several very large carp to over 40lb, a couple of double figure tench and an 8lb chub over the time I worked there, either caught on fly or during nettings. Most of the lake was less than 6 feet deep and crystal clear with the bottom visible for maybe 90% of the lake. Some of those species had never been seen prior to capture despite it being a trout fishery for 60 years. The original lake was landscaped in the late 1900's so who knows what else might be in there.
Yep, the perch i saw was barrel shaped too like a Dink carp. Having now caught some perch over 5lbs i now think the weight i put on the fish at the time was an under estimate.
