Foreign adventures

[barnsy]

Fishing overseas, for predators.
Never really done any, but been a dream since childhood.
Nile perch, Mahseer, Taiman, Musky (obviously), Bonefish and so many others...

My brother and I have been saving hard, and are hoping in the next ten years to tick off a couple of these bucket list items.
Can anyone offer us the benefit of their experience, in terms of trips they'd definitely do again?
I am mostly interested in (comparatively) lower price trips where you get a lot of bang for your buck, as it were, but would love to hear about good (or bad) experiences in general.

I am thinking a trip to Lake Nasser might be a fun starting point, anyone done that?

Cheers!
jb

[Poots]

I've done mahseer before, up north, river Kali, starting in Pancheswar and rafting downriver. Biggest I had was 20, the trip biggest 37, they're not the tubby Kauveri fish, more barbel than carp shaped. Amazing adventure.
I thought Lake Nasser was a busted flush, overfishing for the table etc....
The real adventure would be Goliath tigers, buy Douglas Danns book, it's awesome.

[Muskie]

Most of the Mahseer rivers in India have been subject to dynmite fishing so not much left at all so i understand. Lake nasser is commercially net fished so not worth doing either.

For bang for your buck you can fish Fraser river for white sturgeon around Mission in BC, Canada. Go September or in October and you will have a great time. Last time i was there i had one day's fishing and 16 strurgeon up to 400lbs plus a beast nearly spooled me and cut me offf on a gravel bar. Try Vic Carroa at STS Guiding he has many guides working for him with jet bots too.

Bonefish i would look at Cuba, but its pricey with Avalon. Make sure you can fly cast well as there is always a wind of 15 mph or more so if you are not a very good caster then you may regret your decision.

Loads of places to fish in the world dependant upon your budget.

Others i would do again

Florida Keys for Tarpon on fly but again its expensive the guide i went with Bruce Chard is now $700 a day and then they expect a tip.
BC for chinook salmon on fly on Kitimat river

[barnsy]

Thanks very much for the replies!
I knew Lake Nasser had been commercially fished for a long time, but I thought people still caught, just not as many or as big, like with Mahseer but perhaps not quite as bad (I didn't know mahseer were dynamite fished, but I knew they were overexploited).

Fraser River for Sturgeon is on the possibles list, and it's moved up a good few places after reading this! I figured they were big but not that common.....16 in a day sounds amazing! It's been a life-long ambition to visit Canada and I'd love to do some lure fishing there too. Maybe I should prioritise that?

I'm not necessarily after massive trophy type fish specifically, just a great experience in general. I've always wanted to lure fish my way across N America, catching as many species as possible, but it's so vast...

I do fly cast, but I am far from expert level so the observation about the wind is really helpful. I (fly)fish big open Northern (UK) waters for trout, and some days I can deal with the wind, other days not so much, so I'd definitely need to train hard before dropping that kind of money on a trip.

I'll check out Douglass Dann's book, wasn't aware of that one. Certainly wouldn't mind going after some of those.

Another, pretty random option, is that I have a friend who insists I need to go to Sierra Leone. He's not really an angler, but insists there's all sorts to go for, and that the place is lovely. Bit of a long shot, but has anyone been there since things calmed down?

[Neville Fickling]

I’d go to the Fraser river I had one day 4 sturgeon a couple of 200s. The experience was brilliant . I was on a family holiday so that was it.

[Poots]

https://rockexpeditions.com/

I've looked at this outfit for a long time but struggled to justify the cost. They charter boats for two week trips in the south Pacific and more.

Ascension Island has opened up again but extremely difficult to visit for civvies.

[Muskie]

The white sturgeon is a protected species in the Fraser river so they are very abundant. They can grow up to 12 feet in length and 1400lbs. You have good chances of fish from 80 lbs up to 400 lbs. It is best to go in an odd year so 2023 or 2025 since it is every second year that the pink salmon run the river. When i fished it 40 million pinks were running the river in September and the sturgeon feed on the salmon roe and their carcasses when they die. You fish from a jet boat with generally 60/80lbs class gear fishing with salmon roe in mesh bags. The sturgeon fight very well and often tailwalk/jump.

It is probably the best value type fishing as on a good day you may catch 10 or so. I caught 16 in one day and i was exhausted at the end of it and felt like i had overdone it on the weights in the gym. It is addictive fishing and ideally to lower the cost 2 or 3 anglers could share a boat for a week. During september and October there is the salmon run and obviously you could fish for them both during the week.

Whatever you decide try to go at peak time but even then the fishing will be better from one week to the next. I have done various trips over the years and had some excellent and good weeks but sometimes its a poor week and you have to take the rough with the smooth.

What with the £ to dollar exchange rate and flight etc going up since end of covid total costs are now 50% more so it can be very expensive now. Do your research carefully and budget it all in before making the leap.

Lot's of places on my bucket list but i cannot justify the costs now. Example i would like to fly fish on Mariah Behety beat on rio Grande, Argentina but you tot the lodge costs up, flights and hotel costs and tips and easy its £10k for a week's fishing whcih is crazy money for most but not for some.

[squimp]

I’ve fished a lot abroad, mostly with a fly rod and mostly in saltwater.

These days it is big business - so there are few places left that are sensible prices. For example we used to fish a place on the North coast of Cuba that was run by a Spanish operation. Basic facilities but possibly the best permit fly fishing on the planet at the time. One year we had a repeat booking and we were told a month beforehand that the operation was now run by Avalon at higher cost with fixed dates, flat rotations etc etc. Basically the original operator got gazumped.

One thing to bear in mind is how much fish behaviour changes with angling pressure….If you find decent tarpon in Cuba (for example) they will usually eat a reasonably cast fly. Whether you land them is up to you…In contrast you can cast at big tarpon in The Florida Keys and much of the time they won’t eat. Simply down to them being cast at every day for 3 months every year. Same has happened with GT’s on certain Seychelles islands…..I had 3 refusals in a row one day to good casts - usually a GT will eat any fly within 5 yards!

There is still good fishing out there but you need to do your homework. Central America has some great saltwater fishing for example. Alaska and British Columbia still have some good salmon and trout fishing. Iceland has some good fishing but if you go through the usual operators it is very expensive.

But changing weather patterns don’t help. I started saltwater fishing 25+ years ago and the weather was pretty predictable. Now you book a week based on the moon phase and then hope for the best ! Here’s another example - I went to Alaska in 2019 and had a fun week fly fishing for chinook salmon. My mate and I booked a different lodge for 2020 based on recommendations from several friends. They told us when to go etc etc. Then covid intervened and the trip actually happened in 2022. The fishing was pretty awful despite it being one of the best rivers in the world for chinook/king salmon and (we were told) the most prolific week of the year…..the run simply didn’t materialise. You can’t catch fish that aren’t there.

Wherever you fancy going try and talk to anglers who have actually been there recently. The marketing blurb makes everywhere sound like fish soup !

[barnsy]

Some great points, and lots to think about! Thanks again!
I like the point about angling pressure. Obviously the dream is to fish somewhere nobody else does, but it's not so easy. Central America and Central Africa both appeal in some ways, but obviously come with their own challenges.
Sounds like Fraser River might be a must-do though. Forgive my ignorance, is there much in the way of pike/ musky fishing in that neck of the woods?

[Muskie]

Yes, some good points there. El Nino is a more common weather effect, which really does badly effect the fishing at sea.

Yes, the last time i went Chinook fishing in BC it was hot and sunny in mid June and that effected my catches (they don't like blazing sun). You probably experienced same in Alaska and i think in 2019 or 2020 it was hotter on the Skeena river at Terrace BC in mid June than in the middle east which is totally unheard of and locals were sitting in deckchairs in the river to try to keep cool. Hot weather has effected Chinook spawning and catches are down now.

Yes, the tarpon in Florida Keys can be tricky but you use smaller flies for them and lead them further than in the past. Yes, there is a lot of pressure but good angler still catch mostly those who can cast well and present the fly correctly.

Sounds like Cayo Romano/ Cruz you stayed at which is were i fished with Avalon. I caught tarpon and lost of bonefish and lost a permit on my third cast there (due to not setting the hook hard enough) oh but for the same chance at the end of the week when my eye was in.

No there are no pike or musky in Fraser River or nearby in the state of British Columbi to my knowledge. They are mainly found in the lakes and rivers in Ontario state.

[squimp]

Yes, some good points there. El Nino is a more common weather effect, which really does badly effect the fishing at sea.

Yes, the last time i went Chinook fishing in BC it was hot and sunny in mid June and that effected my catches (they don't like blazing sun). You probably experienced same in Alaska and i think in 2019 or 2020 it was hotter on the Skeena river at Terrace BC in mid June than in the middle east which is totally unheard of and locals were sitting in deckchairs in the river to try to keep cool. Hot weather has effected Chinook spawning and catches are down now.

Yes, the tarpon in Florida Keys can be tricky but you use smaller flies for them and lead them further than in the past. Yes, there is a lot of pressure but good angler still catch mostly those who can cast well and present the fly correctly.

Sounds like Cayo Romano/ Cruz you stayed at which is were i fished with Avalon. I caught tarpon and lost of bonefish and lost a permit on my third cast there (due to not setting the hook hard enough) oh but for the same chance at the end of the week when my eye was in.

No there are no pike or musky in Fraser River or nearby in the state of British Columbi to my knowledge. They are mainly found in the lakes and rivers in Ontario state.

You are obviously an optimist -as compared to me being a pessimist !

When we fished in Alaska in 2019 it was hot and sunny but we still hooked around 5 kings each per day. In 2022, the weather wasn’t as extreme but 14 of us only caught about 10 decent fish between us in the entire week. About 10 of of the group were top quality double handed anglers (I was 1 of the other 4). The fish simply weren’t in the river.

Re The Keys; yes you can catch fish. But it is hard work. My mate has fished there with Andy Mill (one of the best tarpon fly anglers ever) and in 2 days Andy didn’t get a single take ! He made plenty of casts…..I fished there with another mate for a week a while back and we caught 7 fish in the week. 4 redfish (biggest about 5 lb), 2 bonefish (9 and 11) and a tarpon of 115. And that’s fishing with top quality guides (hard to book) and we’ve got half an idea what we are doing….

In Cuba the fish aren’t as big (80+ fish are uncommon) but you can have multiple captures. I remember fishing on my own one afternoon and I had 3 casts and caught 3 fish around 50lb each. Lovely fishing, particularly as it was clear water sight casting. My best day I landed 20 between 30 and 60 lb. My boat partner did the same. But days like that are very rare.

Re Cuba; yes we fished regularly at Cayo Cruz. I’ve caught plenty of permit there including some very big ones. On top of that there can be big bones there, particularly in the Winter (colder water). It’s not a great tarpon location - but my mates and I have managed maybe 8 or 10 grand slams there. The bad news is that the permit fishing there appears to have dropped off in the last few years…..hopefully that is only temporary.

[Muskie]

Yes Andy Mill is a well known tarpon angler.

You have to be an optimist to be a fisherman.

That is a great achievement to have experienced multiple grand slams.

If the permit of about 20lbs had stayed hooked i would have been in with a chance.

Yes, you are on the money with the tarpon at Cayo Cruz did not see many but had a 90lbs fish whcih took ages to get in on a 12 weight as it just would not jump, so did not get tired and just kept moving on and on at a slow pace. Took 1 hour when it woud have been over in perhaps 20 mins at most if it had jumped.

Had bonefish up to 10lbs and some nice jacks too.

The location was more about Permit and bonefish than Tarpon. I suppose the pressure has had an effect on the permit. I saw some big twenties but they were spooky as you like and every time we got into position the curse would strike that perfectly laid out line in the bot would then miraculously tangle and the shot would be missed. Something which never happened during that trip. Yet speaking to other anglers i know they have expereinced the permit curse too. You also get bloody nervous for the next time for the curse to strike again. And unfalteringly it does.


In assessing where to go and with whom i always ask for some references i can contact to get their views on the operation before booking as anybody can put up marketing blurb and some nice fish pics which they steal from somewhere else. In the main i book with reputable guides or go through one of the well known sporting agencies. Aardvark McCleod and Frontiers have good reputations and websites where you can have a look at venues and dream. I have also used a Danish sporting company Get Away Tours who are reputable.

[squimp]

I’ve had bad experiences with Frontiers (twice) as well as Get away tours and Fly Odyssey too. Things aren’t always what they seem.

As you say you need references/recommendations from people you trust and then a big chunk of luck too.

[Muskie]

That's unfortunate. Just goes to show everyone's experiences can be different. Unfortuntely some companies are one band operations who sell locations to fish they know nowt about or have been given a freebie trip to promote after. It can be a minefieldto negotiate.

Also be careful if you go on an organised trip with a party of other anglers you don't know as the focus of the fishing may not be what you envisaged and some of the group can be challenging as being complete arses. But thats' why i go on my own mainly since, even with friends if they don't have a good week and you do it can be a downer on the trip. I don't need that baggage to bear.