Heavy Pike Rods.

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DavyMc
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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by DavyMc »

Lee7499 wrote:
DavyMc wrote:
LB wrote:
Good thread lads, all very interesting stuff. Marty I'd like to have a look at this 9ft blank, could be the one? :grin:
Agree the swimbait market is small but it's fashionable and I'd guess it's there for the taking too. We are influenced by America - let's be honest they are ahead of us in lure fishing terms - they love a swimbait rod and for good reason. Also look at the style of lures coming out, more and more are large soft plastics with real life actions. That is here to stay in my opinion as people love lures more than the pike!!
I find it hard going throwing soft plastics all day, it's hard work and it's been my main method of fishing for the past 3 seasons so I know a bit about it. Something to make life a little easier on the aching back would be worth investing in. 6'6" rods do not cut it.
Get a half decent 8 or 9 foot rod makes a big difference to casting them and would double up as a heavy deadbait rod :laughs:
Very interesting thread ,just wondering do you think you would need to step up to bigger multiplier reels instead of the 300/ 400 size Baitcaster ?.
shimano 400 does me fine, might even give a toro winch a shot they're nice for reeling in weight or resistance
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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by BillCollins »

I have the SG 8'6" big pike rod, I used it a few times and it's gathering dust since. It's not excessively heavy or anything but just feels very big and cumbersome, I could'nt face the thought of using it for hours at a time. Might find a use for it as a trolling rod. I have a 9ft MPP trigger which is probably intended for bait fishing but combined with a Komodo 364 it's well suited to chucking big lures around and far nicer to use than the big pike.
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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by Marty »

DaveGreenwood wrote:
Marty wrote:
In most cases they are value for money and adequate - so if thats what your after they are a sensible buy. Lots of anglers use sg/greys etc etc rods and theyve been adequate for the job and lasted a few years - at under £100 a rod you cant expect a lifetime warranty. Like most things in this life if your after top quality and top performance it comes with a price!
The Greys rods come with a lifetime warranty, mass produced rods have come a long way (China probably) :grin: in the last 10 years and are good value for money and if used properly they wont break, of course a custom build will be nice if thats what people want, each to their own.
are you sure dave?
Last time i looked you had to send back all parts of the rod (at your cost), then pay a nominal £25 replacement fee plus 10% of the rrp of your rod.

So for a broken rod with a RRP of £120 (that you bought for £99) its costing you £15 to send a back, plus £25 replacement fee, plus £12 (10% of rrp) - that lot adds up to £52, which i wouldnt call a lifetime warranty - more like purchasing another rod at more than half price or if you prefer reimbursing Greys with at least their full cost of replacing the rod!

Nothing wrong with the manufacturing prowess in the far east, anyone who thinks china/korea/malaysia etc dont have the technology to make good kit is living in the dark ages - their manufacturing plants are world leading - but they are in most cases making the best blanks they can for a very small budget - like to hazard a guess how much Greys will pay for a blank on a £120 rrp rod? :wink:
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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by Daniel »

Lee7499 wrote:
DavyMc wrote:
LB wrote:
Good thread lads, all very interesting stuff. Marty I'd like to have a look at this 9ft blank, could be the one? :grin:
Agree the swimbait market is small but it's fashionable and I'd guess it's there for the taking too. We are influenced by America - let's be honest they are ahead of us in lure fishing terms - they love a swimbait rod and for good reason. Also look at the style of lures coming out, more and more are large soft plastics with real life actions. That is here to stay in my opinion as people love lures more than the pike!!
I find it hard going throwing soft plastics all day, it's hard work and it's been my main method of fishing for the past 3 seasons so I know a bit about it. Something to make life a little easier on the aching back would be worth investing in. 6'6" rods do not cut it.
Get a half decent 8 or 9 foot rod makes a big difference to casting them and would double up as a heavy deadbait rod :laughs:
Very interesting thread ,just wondering do you think you would need to step up to bigger multiplier reels instead of the 300/ 400 size Baitcaster ?.
No. A bigger reel only offers a bigger line capacity and you'll not throw big softies far enough for that to be required.
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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by DaveGreenwood »

Marty wrote:
DaveGreenwood wrote:
Marty wrote:
In most cases they are value for money and adequate - so if thats what your after they are a sensible buy. Lots of anglers use sg/greys etc etc rods and theyve been adequate for the job and lasted a few years - at under £100 a rod you cant expect a lifetime warranty. Like most things in this life if your after top quality and top performance it comes with a price!
The Greys rods come with a lifetime warranty, mass produced rods have come a long way (China probably) :grin: in the last 10 years and are good value for money and if used properly they wont break, of course a custom build will be nice if thats what people want, each to their own.
are you sure dave?
Last time i looked you had to send back all parts of the rod (at your cost), then pay a nominal £25 replacement fee plus 10% of the rrp of your rod.

So for a broken rod with a RRP of £120 (that you bought for £99) its costing you £15 to send a back, plus £25 replacement fee, plus £12 (10% of rrp) - that lot adds up to £52, which i wouldnt call a lifetime warranty - more like purchasing another rod at more than half price or if you prefer reimbursing Greys with at least their full cost of replacing the rod!

Nothing wrong with the manufacturing prowess in the far east, anyone who thinks china/korea/malaysia etc dont have the technology to make good kit is living in the dark ages - their manufacturing plants are world leading - but they are in most cases making the best blanks they can for a very small budget - like to hazard a guess how much Greys will pay for a blank on a £120 rrp rod? :wink:

It comes with conditions but its a lifetime warranty its all here which you probably googled yourself?

I only paid £70 for mine with free shipping as there was a 20% off weekend :clap:



Iv yet to break a rod on the cast although I wince sometimes when giving it the big un with a 7oz lure, if you use the recommended casting weights and dont knock the rod on something hard it shouldn't break.

http://www.greysfishing.co.uk/Greys-warranty.html
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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by Mike J »

Marty please....
You cannot make statements like those below and expect to be taken seriously.

[quote="Marty"]
Westin cant even put quality guides or cork on a £250 rod!

"a 2 pc rod is not ideal when belting out 8oz hundreds of times a day"

"i reckon theres an uptide blank out there (i havent looked and have no intention to"

[quote="Marty"]


Quality?
Do we know what is very highest quality, are we supplied with what we will, or have grown to accept, or do most anglers believe what the importers or manufacturers tell them is quality?
How many reading this are trained engineers I wonder?

Guides?
Most anglers and many rod builders do not know what the highest quality rod guide actually looks like. eg; how many have access to the FUJI JDM guide catalogue or would know how to obtain guides contained therein?

Quality Corks?
The VERY highest grade cork (Portuguese) is rarely available on the open market, and certainly never makes it onto a rod handle, infact it is such a fine product it can be fashioned into wafer like material and made into clothes. How many rod builders have seen cork oaks stripped of their bark, seen it packed and pressed or can actually grade cork?

Blanks;
Most of us, including me, will choose a rod on the recommendation of someone we trust or who has extensive experience. Many will start with the lowest priced rod available and work upwards until they find a rod they really enjoy using (me also) and a rare few will move heaven and earth to obtain the rod they (think they) want.
A good rod builder can make a silk purse out of any sows ear/blank and make it look like a million dollars, but it could have an action like a stick of spaggetti, coukdnt cast for a toffee or be ineffective handling a decent a fish, which is why we buy rods we have used or seen used.
Blanks fail (break) and the only true test of any blank is to land some big fish on it, this is the ultimate test of any blank and the one applied by boat crews to all big game rods, forget the badge or makers hype, catch some serious fish on it and if its still there at the end its a good rod (blank) irrespective of its price or age.
Some 60&70's blanks are still revered for their resiliance and sheer fishing qualities, eg; Modern Arms Oceanic boat rods and the original Normark freshwater rods to name but two, such blanks can still be made into a highly effective rod which can and will last a lifetime of fishing without failure.

The idea of a popping rod type blank I mentioned previously was not mine but that of a late Dutch friend who used one to cast his massive self made lures with outstanding success, "better to be first and fail a few times, than be second and have to share with everyone else" was his motto.

But wasn't the late Fred Buller using a beachcaster to sling a huge 12"+ lure around when FJT caught his Wilstone biggie all those years ago?

.....


However, in the interest of experimentation and lure rod development, I have in store a JIgging Master 150 blank that will deadlift 22kg (load tested before it left the factory) and a custom JM 150 for direct comparison. I have always intended to have this blank built into a two piece project rod, tip and seperate extending handle, and I just reckon it could make up into the near ultimate lure rod.
So, if there is a rod builder out there who is interested in joining me on this journey into the future, drop me a line.

Thats it, Im off as the river's dropping.
:thumbs:
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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by Marty »

lol! yes i can, if you dont want to take them seriously thats your perogative.

without wishing to be rude I've been involved with blank design from start to finish, visited and sourced my own cork directly from a Portuguese cork farm and built hundreds of rods with my own hands using pretty much every component on the market. As a consequence I have acquired enough knowledge to formulate my opinion.

If you think the cork used on Westin rods is great, the Seaguide guides on the rod you linked to are top quality, and a lure rod to throw 8oz is as durable in 2 piece as 1-piece then thats fine. Without wishing to appear rude, i dont think you know what your on about.
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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by Marty »

jonsykes wrote:
I've been following this thread with interest -I have a lot of heavy lures i'd like to use one day (if I ever get time) but can't ever see myself boat fishing. I have to say I like what I read from Marty - I am tempted to order one from him myself (ps how were the kwik-lok boxes??)
if i'd have twigged they were from you i'd have asked for a discount! :laughs:

I love em Jon, but theyve been discontinued now i think so had to grab em. cheers bud :thumbs:
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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by jonsykes »

You're welcome. Came in a batch of stuff from a tackle shop closure (Frisby Lakes??) I paid £300 for over £1300 retails worth. Thought i'd be stuck with them - bloody expensive for their size I thought.
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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by LB »

Surely a durable 2 piece rod is possible?
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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by Lee7499 »

With a 2 piece you will always have that weak spot no matter what material it's made from . You can't get away from the fact that the wall of the outer top section where the two sections meet will always be the weak spot and I don't believe you can engineer that out. You can over compensate with a thicker blank but that then ends up with you having a broom handle for a rod which ends up just being hard work.
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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by DaveGreenwood »

Lee7499 wrote:
With a 2 piece you will always have that weak spot no matter what material it's made from . You can't get away from the fact that the wall of the outer top section where the two sections meet will always be the weak spot and I don't believe you can engineer that out. You can over compensate with a thicker blank but that then ends up with you having a broom handle for a rod which ends up just being hard work.

I cant agree with this, years ago Fly rods were 2 section then 3 now they are commonly 4 section with no flat spots, modern technology has ironed out all the joint issues and I have never heard of a rod going at the joint, the tips yes. I think 2 section lure rods are great now, we've never had it so good :grin:
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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by Daniel »

DaveGreenwood wrote:
Lee7499 wrote:
With a 2 piece you will always have that weak spot no matter what material it's made from . You can't get away from the fact that the wall of the outer top section where the two sections meet will always be the weak spot and I don't believe you can engineer that out. You can over compensate with a thicker blank but that then ends up with you having a broom handle for a rod which ends up just being hard work.

I cant agree with this, years ago Fly rods were 2 section then 3 now they are commonly 4 section with no flat spots, modern technology has ironed out all the joint issues and I have never heard of a rod going at the joint, the tips yes. I think 2 section lure rods are great now, we've never had it so good :grin:
Couldn't agree more. The difference between 1 and 2 piece rods has closed dramatically in the last few years. I have 4 piece travel rods that compare well to 1 piece rods.
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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by Steve Dennington »

DaveGreenwood wrote:
I cant agree with this, years ago Fly rods were 2 section then 3 now they are commonly 4 section with no flat spots, modern technology has ironed out all the joint issues and I have never heard of a rod going at the joint, the tips yes. I think 2 section lure rods are great now, we've never had it so good :grin:
True. I have fly rods with 2, 3 and 4 sections and there's no discernible difference between them.
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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by Lee7499 »

Daniel wrote:
DaveGreenwood wrote:
Lee7499 wrote:
With a 2 piece you will always have that weak spot no matter what material it's made from . You can't get away from the fact that the wall of the outer top section where the two sections meet will always be the weak spot and I don't believe you can engineer that out. You can over compensate with a thicker blank but that then ends up with you having a broom handle for a rod which ends up just being hard work.

I cant agree with this, years ago Fly rods were 2 section then 3 now they are commonly 4 section with no flat spots, modern technology has ironed out all the joint issues and I have never heard of a rod going at the joint, the tips yes. I think 2 section lure rods are great now, we've never had it so good :grin:
Couldn't agree more. The difference between 1 and 2 piece rods has closed dramatically in the last few years. I have 4 piece travel rods that compare well to 1 piece rods.
I'm not disputing the fact that the 2/3 or 4 pice rods aren't any good I'm just saying that a 1 piece will always be better due to the fact that it has no spigot/ join. In engineering of any kind a joint will always be a weak spot compared to a solid section unless the joint is compensated with some form of reinforcement.
Yes the improvement in engineering and CAD has made the building of rods easier and now the system will tell you where to place the joint to negate any flat spot that the spigot would create but it's still a join. Where is Mr Lumb when you need him ! Just wanted to ask him how many 4 piece Axioms he has built lately. My initial remarks related to a comment that LB was asking about a durable 2 piece . It can obviously be done but a 1 piece would be a better option but altogether impossible to transport.
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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by davelumb »

I'm keeping out of this because I know nothing about the actual make up of fishing rod blanks. i.e. which cloths to use where in the blanks and how to cut the patterns. I leave that to the experts. :clown:
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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by Lee7499 »

davelumb wrote:
I'm keeping out of this because I know nothing about the actual make up of fishing rod blanks. i.e. which cloths to use where in the blanks and how to cut the patterns. I leave that to the experts. :clown:
I'm glad you said that I was just about order a rod from you :laughs:
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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by Mike J »

Two piece rods
Popping rods (3/4" joints) that beat 200lb plus Tuna and GTS.
Alloy butt (3.5" ferrule) big game 130lb rods that will apply over 65lbs of load on the line
1960's Sportex Hornsea (nickel silver ferrules) that will chuck out a 1lb Jack and a Fibretube Hardy (spigot) that will do the same.

Marty,
Re the Westin rod, I never said the guides were top quality or that the cork was great but for €140 it is a good enough 2piece for throwing 8-10oz all day in my little hands.

And before anyone gets the wrong idea, Portuguese cork is not 'farmed' it is harvested, once every ten years, the landowner makes his living farming the land beneath the trees (and from EU grants) and yes Ive been there, but not as tourist or a visitor.

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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by Nobby C »

Has anyone considered or used a standard 6-12lb class boat rod for heavy lures? Boat rods tend you be one piece with an add on handle .
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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by jimthehook »

My latest heavy came from a guy in London who makes them, cast up to 115grams and is one piece :) "About_Blank" is his name / facebook!. £65 wasn't to bad I thought!.
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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by Mike J »

For £65 that is a steal!

When your up and running dont forget to post a pic with your first fish alongside.

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Re: Heavy Pike Rods.

Post by jimthehook »

Mike J wrote: Wed Feb 28 2018 16:45 -
For £65 that is a steal!

When your up and running dont forget to post a pic with your first fish alongside.

:thumbs:
Its up and running just need to get a big mumma on it now and not so cold it freezes me and the rod rings!!
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