How big?

[Mark Phillips]

How big do zander grow to? Like many of you, I've seen pictures of zeds to over 30lb from Holland and heard a few tales of fish bigger than that; so could we reasonably expect to see such fish in the UK? You can count on one hand how many 20's have ever been caught in the UK, so it still seems very unlikely that we might one day see zander topping say 25+ in the UK? I can think of at least two waters where I guess there could be something humungous swimming around, but the results so far point toward something like 21 to 23 as being the most likely ceiling in the UK right now. What are your thoughts chaps?

[Donky123]

I think your wrong mark, for once, i think the zander record is the only record that could be blown away in the uk, by a massive fish certainly over 25 if not near 30.

there are some tidal waters that never get fished

[Jason Skilton]

A 30lb zander...mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

[davelumb]

Someone I know, who is no stranger to big fish, told me he saw a friend of his lose a zander at the net that was easily 25lb, possibly much larger.

The name of the venue eludes me...

[Jason Skilton]

Someone I know, who is no stranger to big fish, told me he saw a friend of his lose a zander at the net that was easily 25lb, possibly much larger.

The name of the venue eludes me...

Think harder my wise and wonderful bearded rod builder;)

[davelumb]

[JohnCostello]

I think your wrong mark, for once, i think the zander record is the only record that could be blown away in the uk, by a massive fish certainly over 25 if not near 30.

there are some tidal waters that never get fished

As a long shot what about the tidal Thames, it has done huge pike and carp

[Jonno]

I don't think it will be long before a 20lb+ fish is reported from the fens, and its highly likely I think that an uncaught monster could be lurking in the East Anglian ressy.

[Warren]

I'll stick me neck out and predict (i got the Bream right 4-5 years ago) that a 25lb plus fish will be out in the next 2-3 years.

[Patrick Bateman]

I'd like to see said pic of a Dutch 30 please Mark!

[spincityfan]

have any of you read marks zander book? in there dave pugh mentions a zander that his boat partner lost at the boat that they both estimated at 23lb

[Jason Skilton]

have any of you read marks zander book? in there dave pugh mentions a zander that his boat partner lost at the boat that they both estimated at 23lb

Yep, I have see that I think.....still dream of a double....let along a 20lb.....

[spincityfan]

double be nice here too. m mate had a scraper double last year and it was huge

[Mr Bump]

Look how far barbel have come in the past 10+ years, they topped out at 14s and have gone on to low 20s.

Zander too were mid double size tops and now are pushing 20s and this is in a shorter time in the country.

I see no reason why mid 20s isnt posible in the near future.

[dropped_run]

zander arent on the same kind of of high protein baits, river severn aside, so the weight gains arent going to skyrocket like barbel's....

however ive seen photos of an estimated 24 caught on the fens on an electrofishing day, and f**k me its an absolute unit!

[Mr Bump]

Not all barbel rocketted on a diet of boilies though.

Perch are pushing the record alot when it had been static for quite a while, they are not massive boilie fans either. Crays on the other hand.

Maybe its global warming

[Emma Hamilton]

There were a number of 18+ plus fish with a couple over 19lb reported in the 90's. With a couple of 20's now recorded in more recent times top of the tree weights dont appear to have jumped up enormously over the last 10-15 years. The Zeds id imagine have become a bit more widespread across in particular Midland conected waterways, so its here that maybe something enormous might just show up. The demise of eel numbers over the last decade may result in much higher year class silver fish recruitment on some waterways especially waterways where eels were particularily prolific. Silver fish explosion in sizes suitable and benificial to produce huge fish will be needed.

Having said that, its very interesting (i think) that two of the biggest Zeds of all time have now been caught on man made artificial carp/barbel baits. Coincidence ? , or could this strange predator be influenced in the future on a waterway by carp/barbel anglers and pre-bait. As we know a number of species and records have been broken in the past by carp anglers. If a third top ten Zed is caught on a pellet or boilie it'll be interesting.

rob

[martin godliman]

I wonder what this weighs ?

[Emma Hamilton]

I wonder what this weighs ?

That looks like it could weigh anything you like, it looks absolutly enormous.
rob

[Mark Phillips]

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about Martin! Intersting that people can estimate the weight of a big zander they have lost when they've nothing to really put that into perspective; as most of us have never even seen a really big zander. I've a mate who said he lost a 20+ at the net and his biggest is a very modest 13lb. I asked him how he came to figure the size of the fish and he told me it was more or less the same size as a 20lb pike. Not so sure he was playing with a full deck that day... Anyway, enough of all that... I really hope we do see them getting up to 25+ but right now, even an upper double is rocking horse s**t IMHO. When you look back over the last 15 years there's been what, two or three genunine 20+ fish? I've no doubts we might see one or two bigger ones in the next few years but so confident as some that we'll ever quite get fish to rival what's on the other side of the North Sea? Cheers for the replies lads

[martin godliman]

I wonder what this weighs ?

That looks like it could weigh anything you like, it looks absolutly enormous.
rob

I've no idea either Rob I can't remember where I got that picture definitely it's continental and by with the way it's being held you can see it's genuinely big.

[Stevo]

I thought it was a Nile Perch at first........



Steve

[Dave Horton]

I wonder what this weighs ?

Wow!

(Incredible face)

[merlin]

zander arent on the same kind of of high protein baits, river severn aside, so the weight gains arent going to skyrocket like barbel's....

however ive seen photos of an estimated 24 caught on the fens on an electrofishing day, and f**k me its an absolute unit!

Knowing the regional fisheries officer pretty well I doubt thats right. They definitely had an 18lber in a survey, but as they have scales why would they be guesstimating?

[merlin]

Yeah, that's what I'm talking about Martin! Intersting that people can estimate the weight of a big zander they have lost when they've nothing to really put that into perspective; as most of us have never even seen a really big zander. I've a mate who said he lost a 20+ at the net and his biggest is a very modest 13lb. I asked him how he came to figure the size of the fish and he told me it was more or less the same size as a 20lb pike. Not so sure he was playing with a full deck that day... Anyway, enough of all that... I really hope we do see them getting up to 25+ but right now, even an upper double is rocking horse s**t IMHO. When you look back over the last 15 years there's been what, two or three genunine 20+ fish? I've no doubts we might see one or two bigger ones in the next few years but so confident as some that we'll ever quite get fish to rival what's on the other side of the North Sea? Cheers for the replies lads

Quite agree with that Mark.

I would be very surprised if whilst the current national close season is in place we ever see a fish pass the 25lb mark, in fact i think we will struggle to see that.

[Mark Phillips]

I think your wrong mark, for once, i think the zander record is the only record that could be blown away in the uk, by a massive fish certainly over 25 if not near 30.

there are some tidal waters that never get fished

Yes mate, I hope I'm wrong too! I'm with Mark, 25+ I think could be a bridge too far for a UK fish? Maybe we'll see an outsized monster pop up out of nowhere, that would be magic. A 19 only has to eat 4lbs of skinner flesh and there you go....

The reality? Given that fish over 18 are rare enough, over 19 rarer still and over 20... I still think a lowish 20 is about the limit and 25 would be something completely amazing. The waters accross in Holland and so on and very different to what we have over here. Grafham gave us a taste of that with a few very big doubles and some stories of 20+ fish (stories, I need to emphasise that word!), but that was a bit of a one off and the fishing there has dropped off a long way from the looney season that was. Who knows though? I too think one of the tidal areas on certain rivers could well throw up a lump and don't ever discount the trout waters as they are starting to appear in more than a few of those places. But, and it's a big Clarkson but with plenty of mayo, 25+ in the UK? I doubt it but it doesn't stop me dreaming about it and it's great to hear the enthusiasm out there to see such a beast

[Patrick Bateman]

There are some interesting comments being made here on the need for high protein feed to allow fish to grow large. I've made the following points several times before but I'll make them again here.

There is a large mis-understanding as to growth in fish and the optimal dietary requirements for the same. If you take carbohydrates (sugar) protein and lipids (fat) into consideration this is what you end up with.

Carbohydrate - the primary fuel source in metabolism and a whole host of body functions - excessive amounts are either excreted or turned into fat. Most natural food eaten by carnivores are low in sugar and thus most is used in metabolic function.

Protein - the building blocks of muscle - easily obtained by carnivores by the consumption of prey, protein is nevertheless difficult to convert into useable muscle mass in fish, i.e. it needs energy to make the best use of it.

Lipids - put simply, an energy store which where present in large amounts is stored as fat in the body.

It is far simpler to gain size by putting on fat than protein. Crayfish are high in fat - hence the large perch we have now been seeing for the last ten or so years. Trout are a very high fat fish (commerical feeds are 30%+ fat in some cases). All trout water pike need to do is eat these high fat sources and they will grow very large (large amounts of both fat and protein allow both the effective convertion of trout flesh to muscle mass and storage of fat). It is my contention that it is their relatively unfit nature (due to their own high fat content) that can lead to high mortality amoungst trout water fish. I actually think that the depletion of the eel will have a deleterious effect on top end predator weights (it being a fish with a very high fat content), but as Rob points out if something else comes in to fill the void left by the eels (as will happen) then the predators may see another opportunity. It would take a lot more roach than eels to make a zed or pike reach the same size, however. If preds are starting to "associate" pellets as food, then this may have altogether unintended consequences re optimal weights too, however.

P.S. OMG that zed is massive!

[Mark Phillips]

This is the sort of fish I think we're all dreaming about... what do we think, 25lb + ??????

[davelumb]

This is the sort of fish I think we're all dreaming about... what do we think, 25lb + ??????

More like 12mm on the camera and 5lb on the scales....

[Jonno]

I think your wrong mark, for once, i think the zander record is the only record that could be blown away in the uk, by a massive fish certainly over 25 if not near 30.

there are some tidal waters that never get fished

Yes mate, I hope I'm wrong too! I'm with Mark, 25+ I think could be a bridge too far for a UK fish? Maybe we'll see an outsized monster pop up out of nowhere, that would be magic. A 19 only has to eat 4lbs of skinner flesh and there you go....

The reality? Given that fish over 18 are rare enough, over 19 rarer still and over 20... I still think a lowish 20 is about the limit and 25 would be something completely amazing. The waters accross in Holland and so on and very different to what we have over here. Grafham gave us a taste of that with a few very big doubles and some stories of 20+ fish (stories, I need to emphasise that word!), but that was a bit of a one off and the fishing there has dropped off a long way from the looney season that was. Who knows though? I too think one of the tidal areas on certain rivers could well throw up a lump and don't ever discount the trout waters as they are starting to appear in more than a few of those places. But, and it's a big Clarkson but with plenty of mayo, 25+ in the UK? I doubt it but it doesn't stop me dreaming about it and it's great to hear the enthusiasm out there to see such a beast

I would have thought that if the Zander population in Grafham has decreased significantly, then the fewer remaining fish would have the opportunity to grow bigger, with there being more food to go round, so the fishing will be harder but maybe with bigger fish to be had? This often seems to be the way with pike waters.