The Pikers Pit

Come across this photo from about 15 years ago.
I'm looking at it wondering what signifies it as a ferox rather than a big brown trout. There's lots of differing and conflicting info as to whether they are genetically different or the same species, some of which just develop differently. This to me looks like a very big trout rather than a ferox. ( it was 14lb)
Was caught on mackerel just fishing from the bank.
It's a cracker of a fish regardless of what it is!

I should add that I was taking the photo! My mate caught it.

Big glacial loch ?

Aye. Although was in a fairly shallow basin.

I always assumed as soon as they start preying on fish they’re classed as ferox

Davecott83 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13 2024 19:15 -

I always assumed as soon as they start preying on fish they’re classed as ferox

Not necessarily. I've had wild brownies less than 2lb on deadbaits. In fact I remember a spell on a trossachs loch where a smelt as bait almost guaranteed you a trout. I wouldn't class any of those fish as ferox.

How we started doing it was any Brown trout caught from a Large Glacial Loch ,Lough ,Lake over 3 lbs taken on a large lure or deadbait can be classed as a ferox. That not science but its the best as anglers we can come up with and the scientists agree with the method .
These big lochs don't really produce the big browns unless they go on a fish diet even though they sometimes take a wee fly ( but so do pike) .
Lots more stuff on Google these days with the real scientific stuff concerning these fish .

Reading a piece there, it even suggests that what constitutes a ferox can differ from loch to loch. In a couple of studies, the ferox were genetically different from the standard smaller trout, but on others they shared the same genetics but behaved differently in terms of their feeding and breeding behaviour. It's quite fascinating and I don't think there's a definitive answer to the question. I suppose the 'non scientific ' way you suggested is as good as it gets for now.

There was ferox from if I remember correctly Lough Melvin shared the same DNA as Loch Laggan ferox.
Have a look for some of Ron Greers stuff on Loch Laidon.
Gallapagos Trout i have it but no idea how I could post it.

Here it is I think.

https://ayrshirealba.org/our-backyard-galapagos-lochs/

A bit like big headed and narrow headed eels, only on a smaller and more local scale.

fergie68 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13 2024 20:20 -

How we started doing it was any Brown trout caught from a Large Glacial Loch ,Lough ,Lake over 3 lbs taken on a large lure or deadbait can be classed as a ferox. That not science but its the best as anglers we can come up with and the scientists agree with the method .
These big lochs don't really produce the big browns unless they go on a fish diet even though they sometimes take a wee fly ( but so do pike) .
Lots more stuff on Google these days with the real scientific stuff concerning these fish .

I always thought ferox had to be from waters containing Char? Otherwise there just brown trout? My mate got a 9lb trout of loch Ken but we just assumed it was a big brownie as it’s not really a big glacial loch or got any char

piker al wrote: ↑Sun Apr 14 2024 19:36 -

fergie68 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13 2024 20:20 -

How we started doing it was any Brown trout caught from a Large Glacial Loch ,Lough ,Lake over 3 lbs taken on a large lure or deadbait can be classed as a ferox. That not science but its the best as anglers we can come up with and the scientists agree with the method .
These big lochs don't really produce the big browns unless they go on a fish diet even though they sometimes take a wee fly ( but so do pike) .
Lots more stuff on Google these days with the real scientific stuff concerning these fish .

I always thought ferox had to be from waters containing Char? Otherwise there just brown trout? My mate got a 9lb trout of loch Ken but we just assumed it was a big brownie as it’s not really a big glacial loch or got any char

No mate Ferox only need a preys species that can be anything Powan, coarse fish , the scandy lakes have white fish in some its just small trout .
I'd say on a lot of lochs these days with the introduction of coarse fish and fish farms char are way down the list on the ferox menu.

fergie68 wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15 2024 07:21 -

piker al wrote: ↑Sun Apr 14 2024 19:36 -

fergie68 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 13 2024 20:20 -

How we started doing it was any Brown trout caught from a Large Glacial Loch ,Lough ,Lake over 3 lbs taken on a large lure or deadbait can be classed as a ferox. That not science but its the best as anglers we can come up with and the scientists agree with the method .
These big lochs don't really produce the big browns unless they go on a fish diet even though they sometimes take a wee fly ( but so do pike) .
Lots more stuff on Google these days with the real scientific stuff concerning these fish .

I always thought ferox had to be from waters containing Char? Otherwise there just brown trout? My mate got a 9lb trout of loch Ken but we just assumed it was a big brownie as it’s not really a big glacial loch or got any char

No mate Ferox only need a preys species that can be anything Powan, coarse fish , the scandy lakes have white fish in some its just small trout .
I'd say on a lot of lochs these days with the introduction of coarse fish and fish farms char are way down the list on the ferox menu.

Corrib had millions of char, now they're classified as extinct there. The big trout can hardly be downgraded from ferox to just big brownies now?
I'm a bit vague on the whole ferox thing, but there's good numbers of big single and double figure trout in the loughs around here (upper Shannon system) that regularly get caught on sea deads etc while piking at certain times of year, the early months Jan-March being a good bet. What's notable is the variations in appearance, colour etc. 2 trout from the same lough can look totally different, almost like 2 different species.

Mate had a 15lb brown from a local lake. Took scale samples and got tested and apparently it was classified as a brown and not a ferox.

Zodiac, there’s a thread titled Ferox Identification, started on 25 July 2023, that may be of interest.

Gary Coggon wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16 2024 12:07 -

Zodiac, there’s a thread titled Ferox Identification, started on 25 July 2023, that may be of interest.

Aye that's a good one and pretty much covers what's already on this thread i think.
We've had a few so far this season but nothing big.
The weather has really f****d us so far this season.

bencarvosso wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16 2024 11:41 -

Mate had a 15lb brown from a local lake. Took scale samples and got tested and apparently it was classified as a brown and not a ferox.

Maybe there all just brown trout? Even a wee 2lb trout is predatory

They are mate .
They are all brown trout but they are certainly different.

bencarvosso wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16 2024 11:41 -

Mate had a 15lb brown from a local lake. Took scale samples and got tested and apparently it was classified as a brown and not a ferox.

Hi Ben I'm interested in how they classified it using scale samples .
I know Aya used the scales to determine age and if the fish had ever been to sea .
Maybe age= weight gain ?
A ferox probably piles on considerable more weight hammering roach shoals than a trout supping down flys.

I'll ask him mate. See what info I can get.

Cheers mate
My pal is helping in a tagging program on a large scottish loch it's been ongoing for a few years now.
I posted a pic and some details on one of the recaptures a few seasons back.
Recently he's been tagging some smaller trout that have taken his deadbaits .
It will be interesting how many make the grade and become large ferox.
Here's one a friend caught at the start of the season. It weighed 3lb 8oz .
It was tagged the previous season at 1lb 9oz .
Pretty remarkable weight gain .
That's the difference with ferox trout on and fish diet and a normal oppertunist brownie .

Here's a link to that recapture.

viewtopic.php?f=24&t=47387&hilit=Ferox

That link takes you to a report post page

Thanks Brian. I will repost it.

That links a damn good read

The guys have had a good few recaptures Brian which unfortunately points to a fairly small population of these fish in the Loch. .
In fact we had one at the beginning of last season too.
I will see if can get the link .

Another recapture.
viewtopic.php?f=24&t=48557&p=782642&hilit=Ferox#p782642

I just got a brief WhatsApp off him.

Will try and get more info when I see him