Got the Bstd!

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Mike J
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Mike J »

I have lived in the countryside all my life and spent for most of it working the sharp end of conservation.
I all that time I have never, ever, seen or heard of a magpie hunting small birds in the manner of the bird I eliminated.
My action is the same as I would use on a fox taking lambs, remove the problem and it cannot pass its hunting skills onto its offspring.

I appreciate some of you may find this thread a little distasteful, but there are times when the only solution is the one I employed.

:shrug:
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by charliedog »

Mike J wrote: Sat Jan 20 2018 18:03 -
I have lived in the countryside all my life and spent for most of it working the sharp end of conservation.
I all that time I have never, ever, seen or heard of a magpie hunting small birds in the manner of the bird I eliminated.
My action is the same as I would use on a fox taking lambs, remove the problem and it cannot pass its hunting skills onto its offspring.

I appreciate some of you may find this thread a little distasteful, but there are times when the only solution is the one I employed.

:shrug:
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Bob Watson »

If it sings, leave it, if it squawks :shoot:

:exit:
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Kev Berry »

Mike J wrote: Sat Jan 20 2018 18:03 -
I have lived in the countryside all my life and spent for most of it working the sharp end of conservation.
I all that time I have never, ever, seen or heard of a magpie hunting small birds in the manner of the bird I eliminated.
My action is the same as I would use on a fox taking lambs, remove the problem and it cannot pass its hunting skills onto its offspring.

I appreciate some of you may find this thread a little distasteful, but there are times when the only solution is the one I employed.

:shrug:
why was it a problem Mike, because it was eating song birds or disturbing your bird table?

neither is a reason to kill it---they have been eating songbirds for millennia with no problems to the songbirds apart from having to build another nest and start again, as for taking adults off the bird table---that's your fault. You put a feeding station out for the preds doing that---bit like staking a goat out when tiger hunting.
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Mike J »

Hi Kev
The problem was a change in this particular birds behaviour.
You say "eating songbirds for millennia".
This statement is totally incorrect.
Taking nestlings and eggs yes, hunting down and catching small small birds in flight is not normal magpie behaviour as I have clearly highlight.
Not attacking birds at my feed point, just small birds generally.

Since it incident I have spoken to a highly qualified Government advisor on ecology and two gamekeepers with over 70years experience, asking each if they had ever witnessed or heard of such behaviour, all gave the same negative reply.

As for tethered goats and tigers, best we not go there while many members deploy live-baits.
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Wat Tyler »

Mike J wrote: Sat Jan 20 2018 18:03 -
I have lived in the countryside all my life and spent for most of it working the sharp end of conservation.
I all that time I have never, ever, seen or heard of a magpie hunting small birds in the manner of the bird I eliminated.
My action is the same as I would use on a fox taking lambs, remove the problem and it cannot pass its hunting skills onto its offspring.

I appreciate some of you may find this thread a little distasteful, but there are times when the only solution is the one I employed.

:shrug:
Actually to be fair that post undermines my point to a degree.

Regardless of what any semi-literate halfwit might post on here I too have lived and involved myself in the countryside my entire life. I have no problem whatsoever with necessary and fair control of vermin. My problem is when the sort of thug who shouldn't be loose in the countryside (And BASC has more than its fair share of them) decrees that a bird/animal should die because of it is 'vermin' and for no other reason. If vermin represent a genuine threat to valid livestock, as in a shooting beat situation then fair enough. Killing animals simply because of its specie is the work of morons. Hundreds of foxes, weasels and stoats fall foul of this outdated thuggery at the hands of self appointed 'countrymen' every year.

The fact that you have singled this magpie out as being unusually prolific in the hunting of garden birds gives weight to your actions IMO. Had you killed it simply because it was a magpie then I would class you among the above.
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Kev Berry »

Mike J wrote: Sun Jan 21 2018 10:51 -
Hi Kev
The problem was a change in this particular birds behaviour.
You say "eating songbirds for millennia".
This statement is totally incorrect.
Taking nestlings and eggs yes, hunting down and catching small small birds in flight is not normal magpie behaviour as I have clearly highlight.
Not attacking birds at my feed point, just small birds generally.

Since it incident I have spoken to a highly qualified Government advisor on ecology and two gamekeepers with over 70years experience, asking each if they had ever witnessed or heard of such behaviour, all gave the same negative reply.

As for tethered goats and tigers, best we not go there while many members deploy live-baits.
and like I said Mike---YOU were responsible for it learning that little trick. Just what is normal behaviour? everything adapts to suit its food source, you attracted loads of birds by putting seed etc out, the magpies took advantage of it, just like sprawks do.
Magpies take pheasant/partridge chicks, ducklings ---its a predator so its not really a big change in behaviour.
Mr Tyler has it dead right---just because the BASC decide something is vermin (ie eats pheasants) dosnt mean its "right" to just wantonly kill them.

In killing that magpie Mike you may also have broken the law (excerpt from the link below)

Illegal magpie control
We do oppose illegal magpie control, including poisoning, which has a high risk of accidentally poisoning other birds, including rare birds of prey.

Many people wish to control magpies in gardens because they take eggs and chicks of other birds. Since research indicates that magpies do not pose a conservation problem to garden birds, the use of general licence in this context is at best debatable.

It must be remembered that if challenged, anyone killing magpies in their garden may have to prove to a court of law that they had acted lawfully. This may be difficult given the lack of scientific evidence that magpies affect the conservation of garden bird species.


Read more at https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildl ... aBM1BoC.99


https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildl ... songbirds/
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by owen k »

To answer the original post; a couple of months back I watched a magpie chasing a goldfinch over the garden.It looked pretty serious.Beautiful though,almost like a WW2 dogfight.
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Kev Berry »

Amazing footage here of a sprawk attacking a bird table, I think its several attack shots made to look like one, sprawks use the same attack route time and again

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra6I6svXQPg
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Mike J »

Kev
You are wrong to imply the BASC decides what species are 'vermin' (former WAGBI member from aged 14 through to BASC for 36years). However I know they would investigate reports of malpractice by a shoot owner should sufficient evidence be provided.

I believe 'vermin' were originally specified by NCC (EN and now NE) in consultation with MAFF (disolved and absorbed into DEFRA), it certainly wasn't the RSPB (who have controlled foxes and predatory birds in similar situations as my example).


Owen, thanks for your reply.
Could this indicate a change in behaviour or the odd isolated incident.
Only time will tell.
Last edited by Mike J on Wed Jan 24 2018 21:14, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Wat Tyler »

Mike J wrote: Mon Jan 22 2018 09:30 -
Wat,
You are wrong to imply the BASC idecides what species are 'vermin' (former WAGBI member from aged 14 through to BASC for 36years). However I know they would investigate reports of malpractice by a shoot owner should sufficient evidence be provided.

I believe 'vermin' were originally specified by NCC (EN and now NE) in consultation with MAFF (disolved and absorbed into DEFRA), it certainly wasn't the RSPB (who have controlled foxes and predatory birds in similar situations as my example).


Owen, thanks for your reply.
Could this indicate a change in behaviour or the odd isolated incident.
Only time will tell.
I didn't imply anything of the sort. Have another read.
"No one speaks English, and everything's broken..."
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Kev Berry »

interesting reading this, maybe the corvid haters might like to admit they need a change of mind

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordp ... -the-time/
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Kev Berry »

Mike J wrote: Mon Jan 22 2018 09:30 -
Wat,
You are wrong to imply the BASC idecides what species are 'vermin' (former WAGBI member from aged 14 through to BASC for 36years). However I know they would investigate reports of malpractice by a shoot owner should sufficient evidence be provided.

I believe 'vermin' were originally specified by NCC (EN and now NE) in consultation with MAFF (disolved and absorbed into DEFRA), it certainly wasn't the RSPB (who have controlled foxes and predatory birds in similar situations as my example).


Owen, thanks for your reply.
Could this indicate a change in behaviour or the odd isolated incident.
Only time will tell.
"However I know they would investigate reports of malpractice by a shoot owner should sufficient evidence be provided."


who you trying to kid with that statement Mike, have a read of this and look at where all these radio tagged marsh harriers and other radio tagged birds of prey seem to suddenly disappear---yep everyone of them on the grouse moors. None of the shoot owners seemed particularly bothered about these malpractices enough to do any investigating.
Do you really think the shoot owners don't know whats going on? Just look at year 2017. Why are the grouse shooters AGAINST birds of prey being tagged? Quite simple, because it shows where they got killed.

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordp ... incidents/
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Wat Tyler »

Kev Berry wrote: Mon Jan 22 2018 21:54 -
interesting reading this, maybe the corvid haters might like to admit they need a change of mind

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordp ... -the-time/
I have no gripe with shooting folk Kev, in fact I have done a fair bit myself in my younger days (rough shooting) but anyone who tries to pretend that the majority of shooting related people in the rural community adhere to fair and efficient control of vermin is either deluded or exaggerating his/her knowledge and experience of the sport, it's as simple as that!
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Nobby C »

Wat Tyler wrote: Tue Jan 23 2018 06:31 -
Kev Berry wrote: Mon Jan 22 2018 21:54 -
interesting reading this, maybe the corvid haters might like to admit they need a change of mind

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordp ... -the-time/
I have no gripe with shooting folk
Strewth!
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Wat Tyler »

Nobby C wrote: Tue Jan 23 2018 18:43 -
Wat Tyler wrote: Tue Jan 23 2018 06:31 -
Kev Berry wrote: Mon Jan 22 2018 21:54 -
interesting reading this, maybe the corvid haters might like to admit they need a change of mind

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordp ... -the-time/
I have no gripe with shooting folk
Strewth!
Took me five minutes to work out what you meant! :laughs:

...Eats shoots and leaves?
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Will Smith »

Wat Tyler wrote: Tue Jan 23 2018 06:31 -
Kev Berry wrote: Mon Jan 22 2018 21:54 -
interesting reading this, maybe the corvid haters might like to admit they need a change of mind

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordp ... -the-time/
I have no gripe with shooting folk Kev, in fact I have done a fair bit myself in my younger days (rough shooting) but anyone who tries to pretend that the majority of shooting related people in the rural community adhere to fair and efficient control of vermin is either deluded or exaggerating his/her knowledge and experience of the sport, it's as simple as that!
Sadly, I am afraid that I would be inclined to agree with that.

Will.
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Will Smith »

Wat Tyler wrote: Tue Jan 23 2018 19:29 -
Nobby C wrote: Tue Jan 23 2018 18:43 -
Wat Tyler wrote: Tue Jan 23 2018 06:31 -
Kev Berry wrote: Mon Jan 22 2018 21:54 -
interesting reading this, maybe the corvid haters might like to admit they need a change of mind

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordp ... -the-time/
I have no gripe with shooting folk
Strewth!
Took me five minutes to work out what you meant! :laughs:

...Eats shoots and leaves?
What does he mean ? It went straight over my head !

Will
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Wat Tyler »

Will Smith wrote: Tue Jan 23 2018 21:06 -
Wat Tyler wrote: Tue Jan 23 2018 19:29 -
Nobby C wrote: Tue Jan 23 2018 18:43 -
Wat Tyler wrote: Tue Jan 23 2018 06:31 -
Kev Berry wrote: Mon Jan 22 2018 21:54 -
interesting reading this, maybe the corvid haters might like to admit they need a change of mind

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordp ... -the-time/
I have no gripe with shooting folk
Strewth!
Took me five minutes to work out what you meant! :laughs:

...Eats shoots and leaves?
What does he mean ? It went straight over my head !

Will
You have to open the quote to get the gist of it. 😉
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Will Smith »

OK, got it now, TBH neither do I :laughs: :laughs: .

:shoot:

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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by fishandy »

stood waiting for a bus last spring when a heard a commotion in the bushes behind me looked round to see a pair of crows raiding a magpie nest and flying off with the chicks nothing mum and dad magpie could do so magpies have their predators as well guess thats just natures way
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Mike J »

[/quote]

I didn't imply anything of the sort. Have another read.
[/quote]


Apologies. :worthy:

Ammended to Kev who was the intended reader.
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Kev Berry »

Mike J wrote: Wed Jan 24 2018 21:13 -
I didn't imply anything of the sort. Have another read.
[/quote]


Apologies. :worthy:

Ammended to Kev who was the intended reader.
[/quote]

no comment about your surety that the owners of shoots would investigate any malpractice Mike?,

the links I put up show that SOME PEOPLE, who no doubt are BASC members, shoot what the hell they like, and sadly it seems with impunity.
One area in Yorkshire in those links is described as being a black hole where birds of prey fly in but don't fly out. Maybe Mulder and Scully should be brought in to investigate if the shoot owners/managers cant find the reason why?

My reference to BASC deciding what was vermin did not mean they were involved in setting up what was on the general licence---it meant THEY decided what they would shoot as and when they felt like it
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Mike J »

Wat Tyler wrote: Tue Jan 23 2018 06:31 -
Kev Berry wrote: Mon Jan 22 2018 21:54 -
interesting reading this, maybe the corvid haters might like to admit they need a change of mind

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordp ... -the-time/
I have no gripe with shooting folk Kev, in fact I have done a fair bit myself in my younger days (rough shooting) but anyone who tries to pretend that the majority of shooting related people in the rural community adhere to fair and efficient control of vermin is either deluded or exaggerating his/her knowledge and experience of the sport, it's as simple as that!

:thumbs:
Nail and head come to mind.

Kev,
Not trying to kid anyone.
I was referring to the BASC not shoot owners.
People who own a grouse moor (who may or may not even reside in this country) or their employees may have questions to answer but if they are not members of BASC they could simply ignore enquiries should they feel so inclined.
The disappearance of Hen Harriers is well documented and whoever is to blame it has provided an effective means for Nature Conservation Charities seeking to raise money from the general public.

The most effective combination in my experience has been the Wildlife Crime Unit working in conjunction with the RSPB Investigations Team.
'No Man Ever Fishes The Same River Twice, .... For It Is Not The Same River, .... And He Is Not The Same Man' Heraclitus of Ephesus
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Kev Berry »

Mike J wrote: Wed Jan 24 2018 21:39 -
Wat Tyler wrote: Tue Jan 23 2018 06:31 -
Kev Berry wrote: Mon Jan 22 2018 21:54 -
interesting reading this, maybe the corvid haters might like to admit they need a change of mind

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordp ... -the-time/
I have no gripe with shooting folk Kev, in fact I have done a fair bit myself in my younger days (rough shooting) but anyone who tries to pretend that the majority of shooting related people in the rural community adhere to fair and efficient control of vermin is either deluded or exaggerating his/her knowledge and experience of the sport, it's as simple as that!

:thumbs:
Nail and head come to mind.

Kev,
Not trying to kid anyone.
I was referring to the BASC not shoot owners.
People who own a grouse moor (who may or may not even reside in this country) or their employees may have questions to answer but if they are not members of BASC they could simply ignore enquiries should they feel so inclined.
The disappearance of Hen Harriers is well documented and whoever is to blame it has provided an effective means for Nature Conservation Charities seeking to raise money from the general public.

The most effective combination in my experience has been the Wildlife Crime Unit working in conjunction with the RSPB Investigations Team.
"The most effective combination in my experience has been the Wildlife Crime Unit working in conjunction with the RSPB Investigations Team".

never mind YOUR experience Mike, you seem to live in a very ordered law abiding world. The wild life crime unit seem to do as they like, or maybe its the "shoots" links to the establishment that get the strings pulled to drop any charges. The RSPB are repeatedly banging their heads against a very hard wall, you don't have to be Einstein to work out who shoots and poisons birds of prey on grouse moors. Even when some keepers do get pulled, they just get a slap on the wrist--maybe the local magistrate has a gun on that shoot?
Its obvious you havnt properly read the links I put up---they show that practically ALL complaints about radio tagged marsh harriers, golden eagles etc suddenly "disappearing" on grouse moors get brushed under the carpet.
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Mike J »

Kev Berry wrote: Wed Jan 24 2018 23:40 -
Mike J wrote: Wed Jan 24 2018 21:39 -
Wat Tyler wrote: Tue Jan 23 2018 06:31 -
Kev Berry wrote: Mon Jan 22 2018 21:54 -
interesting reading this, maybe the corvid haters might like to admit they need a change of mind

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordp ... -the-time/
I have no gripe with shooting folk Kev, in fact I have done a fair bit myself in my younger days (rough shooting) but anyone who tries to pretend that the majority of shooting related people in the rural community adhere to fair and efficient control of vermin is either deluded or exaggerating his/her knowledge and experience of the sport, it's as simple as that!

:thumbs:
Nail and head come to mind.

Kev,
Not trying to kid anyone.
I was referring to the BASC not shoot owners.
People who own a grouse moor (who may or may not even reside in this country) or their employees may have questions to answer but if they are not members of BASC they could simply ignore enquiries should they feel so inclined.
The disappearance of Hen Harriers is well documented and whoever is to blame it has provided an effective means for Nature Conservation Charities seeking to raise money from the general public.

The most effective combination in my experience has been the Wildlife Crime Unit working in conjunction with the RSPB Investigations Team.
"The most effective combination in my experience has been the Wildlife Crime Unit working in conjunction with the RSPB Investigations Team".

never mind YOUR experience Mike, you seem to live in a very ordered law abiding world. The wild life crime unit seem to do as they like, or maybe its the "shoots" links to the establishment that get the strings pulled to drop any charges. The RSPB are repeatedly banging their heads against a very hard wall, you don't have to be Einstein to work out who shoots and poisons birds of prey on grouse moors. Even when some keepers do get pulled, they just get a slap on the wrist--maybe the local magistrate has a gun on that shoot?
Its obvious you havnt properly read the links I put up---they show that practically ALL complaints about radio tagged marsh harriers, golden eagles etc suddenly "disappearing" on grouse moors get brushed under the carpet.



I worked at the sharp end of conservation and have experienced firsthand of the problems encountered when trying to collect sufficient evidence in order to solve wildlife crimes. I have even used my own money to pay rewards for 'evidence leading to a prosecution' with success I should add.

Investigating cases of poisoned birds is very complex and fraught with procedural regulations.
Every case I have worked on has failed because of lack of sufficient evidence, despite finding the body and the poison being identified.
Problems begin with finding the time for a search (on what, a suspicion) where to search, finding the poison site, clearly establishing cause of death and the poison used, searches of property and interviews and as you will appreciate all this takes time, lots of time, many many weeks in fact.
The CPS have difficult decisions to make and are required to stand a more than reasonable chance of success before a case is brought before the courts.

You have a clear liaison establish with your local constabulary so perhaps your concerns regarding the Wildlife Crime Unit to which you refer should be addressed to them.

:thumbs:
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Kev Berry

Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Kev Berry »

Mike J wrote: Fri Jan 26 2018 12:00 -
Kev Berry wrote: Wed Jan 24 2018 23:40 -
Mike J wrote: Wed Jan 24 2018 21:39 -
Wat Tyler wrote: Tue Jan 23 2018 06:31 -
Kev Berry wrote: Mon Jan 22 2018 21:54 -
interesting reading this, maybe the corvid haters might like to admit they need a change of mind

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordp ... -the-time/
I have no gripe with shooting folk Kev, in fact I have done a fair bit myself in my younger days (rough shooting) but anyone who tries to pretend that the majority of shooting related people in the rural community adhere to fair and efficient control of vermin is either deluded or exaggerating his/her knowledge and experience of the sport, it's as simple as that!

:thumbs:
Nail and head come to mind.

Kev,
Not trying to kid anyone.
I was referring to the BASC not shoot owners.
People who own a grouse moor (who may or may not even reside in this country) or their employees may have questions to answer but if they are not members of BASC they could simply ignore enquiries should they feel so inclined.
The disappearance of Hen Harriers is well documented and whoever is to blame it has provided an effective means for Nature Conservation Charities seeking to raise money from the general public.

The most effective combination in my experience has been the Wildlife Crime Unit working in conjunction with the RSPB Investigations Team.
"The most effective combination in my experience has been the Wildlife Crime Unit working in conjunction with the RSPB Investigations Team".

never mind YOUR experience Mike, you seem to live in a very ordered law abiding world. The wild life crime unit seem to do as they like, or maybe its the "shoots" links to the establishment that get the strings pulled to drop any charges. The RSPB are repeatedly banging their heads against a very hard wall, you don't have to be Einstein to work out who shoots and poisons birds of prey on grouse moors. Even when some keepers do get pulled, they just get a slap on the wrist--maybe the local magistrate has a gun on that shoot?
Its obvious you havnt properly read the links I put up---they show that practically ALL complaints about radio tagged marsh harriers, golden eagles etc suddenly "disappearing" on grouse moors get brushed under the carpet.



I worked at the sharp end of conservation and have experienced firsthand of the problems encountered when trying to collect sufficient evidence in order to solve wildlife crimes. I have even used my own money to pay rewards for 'evidence leading to a prosecution' with success I should add.

Investigating cases of poisoned birds is very complex and fraught with procedural regulations.
Every case I have worked on has failed because of lack of sufficient evidence, despite finding the body and the poison being identified.
Problems begin with finding the time for a search (on what, a suspicion) where to search, finding the poison site, clearly establishing cause of death and the poison used, searches of property and interviews and as you will appreciate all this takes time, lots of time, many many weeks in fact.
The CPS have difficult decisions to make and are required to stand a more than reasonable chance of success before a case is brought before the courts.

You have a clear liaison establish with your local constabulary so perhaps your concerns regarding the Wildlife Crime Unit to which you refer should be addressed to them.

:thumbs:
did you even bother to look at the links I put up Mike ?
If you had you would have seen such bodies as the RSPB /RSPCA failing to get prosecutions despite compelling evidence---even video evidence of harriers being shot and the keeper picking the bird up

and you think me contacting my local constabulary will make them change their minds :laughs:

The evidence that raptors are being killed wholesale on grouse moors is incontrovertible ---radio tags suddenly stopping working when the birds are on the moor (they send a signal out when batts are low--they don't stop suddenly) poisoned birds found, hidden stash's of poison found, pole traps found with raptors in them, multiple bodies of dead raptors found together that were shot or poisoned,

and how very strange there is never enough evidence for an arrest.
Just who do you think is doing this poisoning and shooting? Its not joe public is it?
The only difficulty the CPS has in bringing these cases to court is finding a daft enough scapegoat to prosecute the high ups who own these moors/shoots
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Mike J »

Kev Berry wrote: Fri Jan 26 2018 13:38 -
Mike J wrote: Fri Jan 26 2018 12:00 -
Kev Berry wrote: Wed Jan 24 2018 23:40 -
Mike J wrote: Wed Jan 24 2018 21:39 -
Wat Tyler wrote: Tue Jan 23 2018 06:31 -
Kev Berry wrote: Mon Jan 22 2018 21:54 -
interesting reading this, maybe the corvid haters might like to admit they need a change of mind

https://raptorpersecutionscotland.wordp ... -the-time/
I have no gripe with shooting folk Kev, in fact I have done a fair bit myself in my younger days (rough shooting) but anyone who tries to pretend that the majority of shooting related people in the rural community adhere to fair and efficient control of vermin is either deluded or exaggerating his/her knowledge and experience of the sport, it's as simple as that!

:thumbs:
Nail and head come to mind.

Kev,
Not trying to kid anyone.
I was referring to the BASC not shoot owners.
People who own a grouse moor (who may or may not even reside in this country) or their employees may have questions to answer but if they are not members of BASC they could simply ignore enquiries should they feel so inclined.
The disappearance of Hen Harriers is well documented and whoever is to blame it has provided an effective means for Nature Conservation Charities seeking to raise money from the general public.

The most effective combination in my experience has been the Wildlife Crime Unit working in conjunction with the RSPB Investigations Team.
"The most effective combination in my experience has been the Wildlife Crime Unit working in conjunction with the RSPB Investigations Team".

never mind YOUR experience Mike, you seem to live in a very ordered law abiding world. The wild life crime unit seem to do as they like, or maybe its the "shoots" links to the establishment that get the strings pulled to drop any charges. The RSPB are repeatedly banging their heads against a very hard wall, you don't have to be Einstein to work out who shoots and poisons birds of prey on grouse moors. Even when some keepers do get pulled, they just get a slap on the wrist--maybe the local magistrate has a gun on that shoot?
Its obvious you havnt properly read the links I put up---they show that practically ALL complaints about radio tagged marsh harriers, golden eagles etc suddenly "disappearing" on grouse moors get brushed under the carpet.



I worked at the sharp end of conservation and have experienced firsthand of the problems encountered when trying to collect sufficient evidence in order to solve wildlife crimes. I have even used my own money to pay rewards for 'evidence leading to a prosecution' with success I should add.

Investigating cases of poisoned birds is very complex and fraught with procedural regulations.
Every case I have worked on has failed because of lack of sufficient evidence, despite finding the body and the poison being identified.
Problems begin with finding the time for a search (on what, a suspicion) where to search, finding the poison site, clearly establishing cause of death and the poison used, searches of property and interviews and as you will appreciate all this takes time, lots of time, many many weeks in fact.
The CPS have difficult decisions to make and are required to stand a more than reasonable chance of success before a case is brought before the courts.

You have a clear liaison establish with your local constabulary so perhaps your concerns regarding the Wildlife Crime Unit to which you refer should be addressed to them.

:thumbs:
did you even bother to look at the links I put up Mike ?
If you had you would have seen such bodies as the RSPB /RSPCA failing to get prosecutions despite compelling evidence---even video evidence of harriers being shot and the keeper picking the bird up

and you think me contacting my local constabulary will make them change their minds :laughs:

The evidence that raptors are being killed wholesale on grouse moors is incontrovertible ---radio tags suddenly stopping working when the birds are on the moor (they send a signal out when batts are low--they don't stop suddenly) poisoned birds found, hidden stash's of poison found, pole traps found with raptors in them, multiple bodies of dead raptors found together that were shot or poisoned,

and how very strange there is never enough evidence for an arrest.
Just who do you think is doing this poisoning and shooting? Its not joe public is it?
The only difficulty the CPS has in bringing these cases to court is finding a daft enough scapegoat to prosecute the high ups who own these moors/shoots


Yes I read the links Kev, and watched the TV programmes and read some of the related reports.
I have also given evidence in court for the CPS and RSPCA in Wildlife Crime cases and have sat in the offices at Sandy discussing the merits of persuing different lines of enquiry.
I have experienced the problems firsthand and understand what actually happens and I can assure you it is not as unequivocal as you imply.

:shrug:
'No Man Ever Fishes The Same River Twice, .... For It Is Not The Same River, .... And He Is Not The Same Man' Heraclitus of Ephesus
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Andrew
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Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Andrew »

" I can assure you it is not as unequivocal as you imply. "

You're new here right ? :scratch:

:giggle: :stir:
Kev Berry

Re: Got the Bstd!

Post by Kev Berry »

Andrew Croft wrote: Sat Jan 27 2018 12:46 -
" I can assure you it is not as unequivocal as you imply. "

You're new here right ? :scratch:

:giggle: :stir:
I'm on your foe list Fud---in that case f**k off and keep your comments about my posts to yourself
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