Simple question about bait :)

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Marius123
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Simple question about bait :)

Post by Marius123 »

Roach, bleak or rudd, is best for zander dead bait, only if you need to choose bait of this 3 for you to fish rest off the life. Lift up from bottom, critically balanced or lay down on bottom.
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Re: Simple question about bait :)

Post by suffolk si »

Really don’t think there’s much difference tbh
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Re: Simple question about bait :)

Post by Fentiger01 »

Biggest Bleak you can find, legered on a free running rig with a heavy (2oz+) weight and barely dead.
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Re: Simple question about bait :)

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad »

Bleak tend to be hard to catch at this time of year so its a no for them.
Of the other two its whatever I can catch as some days its all roach and others rudd but of the two I lean slightly towards the rudd as they are more colourful, not sure what the fish prefer though?
In reality Im happy to use any fresh coarse bait that has a good covering of their natural slim/mucus of about the 5 inch variety that I can catch, so thats usually roach.

Cheers, Alan
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Re: Simple question about bait :)

Post by Fentiger01 »

The seven P's must surely apply here Alan :wink: ? (Prior, Preparation and Planning, Prevents p**s Poor Performance). :laughs: Big Bleak all the way for me, if you can't find them come Autumn time, make sure you have a stock from the Summer time. :wink: :thumbs:

I've had the odd decent Zander on Rudd but actually I don't massively rate them as baits, either live or dead. Roach are great hands down, but for me, big, big Bleak are the essence. 'Violent' takes was the phrase we used 25 years ago on the R. Channel using them.
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Re: Simple question about bait :)

Post by Mark Phillips »

Fentiger01 wrote: Thu Nov 14 2024 22:43 -
The seven P's must surely apply here Alan :wink: ? (Prior, Preparation and Planning, Prevents p**s Poor Performance). :laughs: Big Bleak all the way for me, if you can't find them come Autumn time, make sure you have a stock from the Summer time. :wink: :thumbs:

I've had the odd decent Zander on Rudd but actually I don't massively rate them as baits, either live or dead. Roach are great hands down, but for me, big, big Bleak are the essence. 'Violent' takes was the phrase we used 25 years ago on the R. Channel using them.
I'm with you on the big bleak, really good bait for zander. But I think a decent size gudgeon is the Holly Grail of deadbaits.

I only fished the Relief Channel once, that was on some half arsed zander angler's club fish-in. I can't remember too much about it and don't think I was even a member, just fishing with one. A few of us rucked up and spaced ourselves out for a night. I caught an 11lb zander and that was on a dead gudgeon! First and last time I fished it. I packed up and left before most of the guys had woken up, so they didn't even know I'd had a zander. LOL.
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Re: Simple question about bait :)

Post by Fentiger01 »

Mark Phillips wrote: Sat Nov 16 2024 00:49 -
Fentiger01 wrote: Thu Nov 14 2024 22:43 -
The seven P's must surely apply here Alan :wink: ? (Prior, Preparation and Planning, Prevents p**s Poor Performance). :laughs: Big Bleak all the way for me, if you can't find them come Autumn time, make sure you have a stock from the Summer time. :wink: :thumbs:

I've had the odd decent Zander on Rudd but actually I don't massively rate them as baits, either live or dead. Roach are great hands down, but for me, big, big Bleak are the essence. 'Violent' takes was the phrase we used 25 years ago on the R. Channel using them.
I'm with you on the big bleak, really good bait for zander. But I think a decent size gudgeon is the Holly Grail of deadbaits.

I only fished the Relief Channel once, that was on some half arsed zander angler's club fish-in. I can't remember too much about it and don't think I was even a member, just fishing with one. A few of us rucked up and spaced ourselves out for a night. I caught an 11lb zander and that was on a dead gudgeon! First and last time I fished it. I packed up and left before most of the guys had woken up, so they didn't even know I'd had a zander. LOL.
Hi Mark, I agree that Gudgeon are a killer Zander bait but I've not (and wouldn't) used one in two decades or more, I love the little fella's. :laughs: :laughs: :laughs:
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Re: Simple question about bait :)

Post by Mark_Houghton »

Mark Phillips wrote: Sat Nov 16 2024 00:49 -
Fentiger01 wrote: Thu Nov 14 2024 22:43 -
The seven P's must surely apply here Alan :wink: ? (Prior, Preparation and Planning, Prevents p**s Poor Performance). :laughs: Big Bleak all the way for me, if you can't find them come Autumn time, make sure you have a stock from the Summer time. :wink: :thumbs:

I've had the odd decent Zander on Rudd but actually I don't massively rate them as baits, either live or dead. Roach are great hands down, but for me, big, big Bleak are the essence. 'Violent' takes was the phrase we used 25 years ago on the R. Channel using them.
I'm with you on the big bleak, really good bait for zander. But I think a decent size gudgeon is the Holly Grail of deadbaits.

I only fished the Relief Channel once, that was on some half arsed zander angler's club fish-in. I can't remember too much about it and don't think I was even a member, just fishing with one. A few of us rucked up and spaced ourselves out for a night. I caught an 11lb zander and that was on a dead gudgeon! First and last time I fished it. I packed up and left before most of the guys had woken up, so they didn't even know I'd had a zander. LOL.
I gave a mate down in Peterborough a load of gudgeon deads a good while back when down there fishing, and he reckoned he absolutely slayed the zeds on them, including a good number of big fish. Wish I still had access to that water/supply now, as they`d be cracking perch baits :thumbs: :thumbs:
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Re: Simple question about bait :)

Post by Fentiger01 »

I used to leger them live, tail hooked on a single, with a bit of foam near the hook to pop them up two or three foot off the deck.

Zander used to absolutely nail them! :wink: :thumbs:
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Re: Simple question about bait :)

Post by Mark Phillips »

I wouldn't take them from where they're scarce. 20 years ago several rivers I fished were full of them, one local to me was stuffed with them. Not now. But, I do know two still waters that have them in good numbers, which is it just me or do others find that a bit odd? At any rate, if you can source them 'ethically' then they're a brilliant zander bait. They have a very unique smell to them, maybe that's the attraction?
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Re: Simple question about bait :)

Post by Mark_Houghton »

Mark Phillips wrote: Mon Nov 18 2024 20:05 -
I wouldn't take them from where they're scarce. 20 years ago several rivers I fished were full of them, one local to me was stuffed with them. Not now. But, I do know two still waters that have them in good numbers, which is it just me or do others find that a bit odd? At any rate, if you can source them 'ethically' then they're a brilliant zander bait. They have a very unique smell to them, maybe that's the attraction?
The venue where I could get them from back then was absolutely paved with them....you`d be catching one a chuck in 12ft of water on the float a few rod lengths out, and at the same time there`d be a ball of them swimming around your feet in inches of water mopping up spilled bait, the little buggers were everywhere. Now a stocked trout pond. Agree 100% about obtaining them ethically and not damaging stocks to any extent. I don`t know anywhere local now which has good enough stocks to warrant taking a few for bait.
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Re: Simple question about bait :)

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad »

Fentiger01 wrote: Thu Nov 14 2024 22:43 -
The seven P's must surely apply here Alan :wink: ? (Prior, Preparation and Planning, Prevents p**s Poor Performance). :laughs: Big Bleak all the way for me, if you can't find them come Autumn time, make sure you have a stock from the Summer time. :wink: :thumbs:

I've had the odd decent Zander on Rudd but actually I don't massively rate them as baits, either live or dead. Roach are great hands down, but for me, big, big Bleak are the essence. 'Violent' takes was the phrase we used 25 years ago on the R. Channel using them.
:laughs:

The bleak in the Ouse round here tend to be little fellas although I would happily use a "kipper" bleak if I caught one.

I tend to work on matching the hatch as we say and round here its mainly roach and rudd of the 5 inch flavour.

Gudgeon are a great bait but like you haven't used one for years and as so often, I currently have three in my tank, my favourite fish of all with the ruffe coming in 2nd at the moment, the tiny one in my tank is now being hand fed :thumbs: :hug:

Cheers, Alan
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Re: Simple question about bait :)

Post by Mark Phillips »

cookiesdaughtersdad wrote: Mon Nov 18 2024 20:23 -
Fentiger01 wrote: Thu Nov 14 2024 22:43 -
The seven P's must surely apply here Alan :wink: ? (Prior, Preparation and Planning, Prevents p**s Poor Performance). :laughs: Big Bleak all the way for me, if you can't find them come Autumn time, make sure you have a stock from the Summer time. :wink: :thumbs:

I've had the odd decent Zander on Rudd but actually I don't massively rate them as baits, either live or dead. Roach are great hands down, but for me, big, big Bleak are the essence. 'Violent' takes was the phrase we used 25 years ago on the R. Channel using them.
:laughs:

The bleak in the Ouse round here tend to be little fellas although I would happily use a "kipper" bleak if I caught one.

I tend to work on matching the hatch as we say and round here its mainly roach and rudd of the 5 inch flavour.

Gudgeon are a great bait but like you haven't used one for years and as so often, I currently have three in my tank, my favourite fish of all with the ruffe coming in 2nd at the moment, the tiny one in my tank is now being hand fed :thumbs: :hug:

Cheers, Alan
Small baits still catch the doubles. One of the biggest Ouse zander I have seen took a paternostered live 6-8oz skimmer and subsequently came off. If I'd just followed my own advice and used a smaller bait :knife: I can still see it now, glaring back at me in the half light of dawn as it shook its head and came off a few feet from the net. I had a 15 off that river a couple of years later and that fish was bigger :eek:
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Re: Simple question about bait :)

Post by Mariusl3 »

Fentiger01 wrote: Mon Nov 18 2024 19:09 -
I used to leger them live, tail hooked on a single, with a bit of foam near the hook to pop them up two or three foot off the deck.

Zander used to absolutely nail them! :wink: :thumbs:
Explain more about that rig with foam, thanks!
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Re: Simple question about bait :)

Post by cookiesdaughtersdad »

Mark Phillips wrote: Mon Nov 18 2024 23:52 -
cookiesdaughtersdad wrote: Mon Nov 18 2024 20:23 -
Fentiger01 wrote: Thu Nov 14 2024 22:43 -
The seven P's must surely apply here Alan :wink: ? (Prior, Preparation and Planning, Prevents p**s Poor Performance). :laughs: Big Bleak all the way for me, if you can't find them come Autumn time, make sure you have a stock from the Summer time. :wink: :thumbs:

I've had the odd decent Zander on Rudd but actually I don't massively rate them as baits, either live or dead. Roach are great hands down, but for me, big, big Bleak are the essence. 'Violent' takes was the phrase we used 25 years ago on the R. Channel using them.
:laughs:

The bleak in the Ouse round here tend to be little fellas although I would happily use a "kipper" bleak if I caught one.

I tend to work on matching the hatch as we say and round here its mainly roach and rudd of the 5 inch flavour.

Gudgeon are a great bait but like you haven't used one for years and as so often, I currently have three in my tank, my favourite fish of all with the ruffe coming in 2nd at the moment, the tiny one in my tank is now being hand fed :thumbs: :hug:

Cheers, Alan
Small baits still catch the doubles. One of the biggest Ouse zander I have seen took a paternostered live 6-8oz skimmer and subsequently came off. If I'd just followed my own advice and used a smaller bait :knife: I can still see it now, glaring back at me in the half light of dawn as it shook its head and came off a few feet from the net. I had a 15 off that river a couple of years later and that fish was bigger :eek:
I get that Mark but a 6-8 oz skimmer is a big bait and a very good sized one even for pike, probably about 8 inches long!
I think a nice sized bait for zander is about 2oz, the bleak i catch are several to the ounce so too small for my liking.

Cheers, Alan
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Re: Simple question about bait :)

Post by Fentiger01 »

Mariusl3 wrote: Tue Nov 19 2024 05:05 -
Fentiger01 wrote: Mon Nov 18 2024 19:09 -
I used to leger them live, tail hooked on a single, with a bit of foam near the hook to pop them up two or three foot off the deck.

Zander used to absolutely nail them! :wink: :thumbs:
Explain more about that rig with foam, thanks!
Simples mate, I used to make a normal trace and thread an inch of cylindrical rig foam (5mm thick, or thereabouts) onto the trace and then crimp on a size 0/2 single, pushing the foam down to the eye of the hook. I'd use a 3ft link of 8-10lb mono attached to a swivel above the trace on one end and a 2 or 3oz lead on the other and then tailhook the Gudgeon so it swam away from the rig but constantly struggled to get back to the river bed (due to the foam). Used to get some screaming runs on that one. Like I say, I wouldn't use Gudgeon for bait now. I had my first ever Pike on a Gudgeon back in 1981 but they're little faves of mine now.

It was an old rig illustrated in the ZAC mag 30 years ago by a much brighter angler than I, I hope that helps Bud.
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Re: Simple question about bait :)

Post by Fentiger01 »

Mark Phillips wrote: Mon Nov 18 2024 23:52 -
Small baits still catch the doubles.
They certainly do Mark :cool: :thumbs:.

While I generally like my Zander baits to be in the 1-4oz range, my first ever Fenland Double (11.6) took a 2inch Skimmer. My first 17 took a tiny little 2inch Chub, it was the very last bait I had left at the end of an explosive session on one of the very best days of my life.
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